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Not had the car long but in short, its got a single cat 3" RCM system, typhoon induction kit and its been mapped by Andy Forest (dual map, std and high boost but told its currently left in high).
Dyno print out is showing 342 bhp
Runs nice but im not sure if i'm a fan of the loud induction noise as get a bit tired of it for every day driving. I've got a stock airbox and K&N panel filter so just wondering what impact it would have to change it back without yet another remap?
One thing to also mention is that if booting it and high boost (1.5 bar ish), i get that turbo flutter, rattle snake sound. I've seen the thread on here but is that caused by the induction kit and therefore would go if went back to stock? bad for turbo?
Would any of you reccommend just changing it back without a remap? I was also wondering if there is a way of making it quieter by trying to cut and fit the airbox around the cone filter? Cheers guys!
I've never actually taken my cars to a rolling road session! Last owner did as gave me the print out but guess it wouldn't end there and need further tweaks.
I think it has been in good hands as think Andy Forest has a good name in scoob tuning doesn't he.
What do you think to this turbo flutter sound mate? is it a common thing with induction kits?
Do you also think my map would have a boost cap on it as not sure what is a safe limit and my defi gauge indicates it easily boosts to 1.5bar way before hitting 6k revs.
Anyone else actually got this k&n typhoon induction kit and found to add bhp assuming it was mapped to work well with say a RCM 3" exhaust?
If it does work well then I'm going to leave it and hopefully just get used to the induction noise
I have a further question tho:
My resonator or snorkel with the front air scoop has been removed. I think it would work better if there was still some sort of scoop to duct the colder outside air to the cone area rather than just warm air from the engine bay.
I could just fit both snorkel and scoop as the end of the snorkel points right at the cone or I could just cut the scoop/funnel so it ducts to the same place?
Further to that, I'm just thinking what about extending the typhoon pipe through into the chamber where the snorkel would fit if there is enough room?
Not sure if the extra length on pipe would have an adverse effect?? But it might be quieter being out of the engine bay? The scoop could still fit and duct air into the chamber. I have seen a car advertised a while ago that I think had the filter in there. Prob colder air in there as well and shouldn't get any **** from the wheel arch as its enclosed.
What you guys recon? Anyone done it and what pipe would work? Cheers
Thanks for your input mate.
I might end up doing that when i get fed up with it! was it previously mapped for the induction kit and if you have an upgraded exhaust as well?
I just don't want to have to get it mapped again if i take it off.
I know they say if it wasn't mapped when it was fitted, you were probably running lean but so either you have corrected it or might have other results?
Apart from quieter, have you noticed any other difference? performance?
I guess it depends on what other mods you have?
For the time being, i've just got the funnel scoop fitted with the end blocked off by sticking a piece of perspex on the end and made a slot in the back to exit right where the cone is to direct the outside air to it.
I could have just fitted the snorkel and funnel again but this seemed neater.
dyno is the easiest way to tell if the fuelling is off but you'll need a before and after run to compare and make sure it's still reading the same figures. If it was mapped for the K&N then most likely the scaling will have been adjusted as Andy F. has a reputation for doing things right.
It might be worth shooting Andy an email to ask if the MAF scaling was adjusted much to suit the filter, if the corrections were small then you may just lose a bit of power going back to the stock airbox.
Fitting the scoop from the front of the car/under bonnet bit and then trimming it back to point more air at the filter will only be a good thing, you can also get a heat shield from K&N which you may already have (depends what kit is installed) and this helps reduce the intake temps too:
Does yours look like this or just the filter on a pipe?
Putting the filter in the wing is kinda handy, but also means you have to dismantle everything for cleaning purposes which can be a bit of a pain.
For the boost cap, 1.5 bar/22psi is below the manifold pressure limit, so again it's very likely you still have a boost cut in place - but to know for sure you'd have to ask Andy to check the map file for you (he can probably just look this up on his laptop).
As for the noise your describing, are you able to grab a video of it? Some sounds are OK but some are bad, if its making the sound on spool up then it could be a bit of compressor surge which can be bad for the turbo. Its more likely just the sounds of the turbo spinning up and down along with the wastegate shooting out hot exhaust your hearing and that's nothing to be alarmed about.
Thanks 'Bludgod' for taking the time to do a great reply!
My typhoon kit is very similar to that pic and probably just a newer version as the main pipe is red. I'll take a pic tonight when at home. I've got that shield like in your pic but not the circular one you can buy that fits around the cone.
I have already had a reply from Andy Forest, he said he doesn't keep details of what he has done on customers cars! Mine apparently uses the rear heater switch as a method of changing from standard map to high boost map by a set sequence. Left it as is though.
This is the second WR1 i've had. My last one was standard and the boost seemed to pull right up to say 6K revs hard i seem to remember but this seems to hit max boost around 1.5bar before that as indicated on the gauge? All stuff thats been done before i bought it.
It's certainly louder than my last standard one but hard to tell if actuall quicker! then again 342bhp opposed to stock 320 ish not going to be vast difference?
As for the 'flutter' noise. It's not on spool up, its at it's maximum at the point of changing gear. I've read a few things about other people having it and don't really understand it to be honest. Last one didn't do it so i assumed something to do with having this typhoon kit?
see if you can nab a video of it doing it's thing and we'll have a listen sure
The rear heater switch is the normal way of doing the map switch - it should give you a different boost map to play with but generally timing and fuel stays the same in terms of the map. The switching itself just takes advantage of the ECU's built in auto/manual tables for boost control.
The WR1 stock boost will be around 1.2/1.3 bar - with the remap taking it to 1.5 you should see a big increase in torque at a lower RPM so what your describing sounds quite normal. The boost has to taper down as RPM increases because you'd be running out of injector capacity as well as being outside the peak efficiency range of the turbo so again how you've described things is quite normal.
If something has been changed on the car since it was mapped it can definitely mess with things - I'm thinking along the lines of a boost solenoid change perhaps, it could lead you to be slightly over target boost and could give you that little bit of compressor stall as the turbo is ejecting more air than the engine can consume. I see this usually on bug/blob 2.0's that maybe have been mapped for one brand of solenoid and then it's been changed (or if you go from a 2.5" sports cat to say a 3" open downpipe). Generally the replacement parts have a different performance to the outgoing parts - the ECU can accommodate some of the changes but perhaps the combined results of them would be more than it can deal with.
Nab a video if you can of the car making the sound your describing, should be able to hear what it's at. If your worried at all any decent tuning shop will be able to perform a diagnostic run on your car and see if it's meeting/exceeding target boost and if the fuelling is off from what it should be.
If the map ends up needing tweaked as a result of the check then you have the choice of booking a map tweak with Andy F. or having another tuner do a new map from scratch.
You have a great handle on what i've got as explained it well! You have put my mind at rest a little on what the previous owners have done and it's sounding like it's set up correctly.
It's the first modified car i've had really. I can live with the induction noise as it's not a daily driver. I don't think I could handle it if it had a BOV as well as induction noise though!
Not sure if a video audio will pick up the turbo flutter noise well but I'll try prob at the w/e. Might have to tape my phone under the bonnet! lol
I'll try and find the thread on here about it.
wouldn't be the first under bonnet recording I've seen either so just whatever works
If the noise is happening after you let off the pedal then no problems, if it's happening whilst your on the pedal then potentially problems. Might be worth posting in one of the region specific topics to see if there's anyone local to you also running an open cone filter that could let you have a listen to theirs.
wouldn't be the first under bonnet recording I've seen either so just whatever works
If the noise is happening after you let off the pedal then no problems, if it's happening whilst your on the pedal then potentially problems. Might be worth posting in one of the region specific topics to see if there's anyone local to you also running an open cone filter that could let you have a listen to theirs.
When I brought my car it had a large silicone intake pipe and air filter.
It would get comprossor surge every time you come on boost.
Was told by Bob Rawle to keep the stock intake pipe if your using the oem turbo. It controls the amount of air flow to the turbo preventing surge.
Thanks for your input mate.
I might end up doing that when i get fed up with it! was it previously mapped for the induction kit and if you have an upgraded exhaust as well?
Apart from quieter, have you noticed any other difference? performance?
I guess it depends on what other mods you have?
.
it was mapped but not during my ownership, yesterday I've put standard air box with KN filter, full 3" decat and today mapper has put 3 port boost solenoid and then it got mapped.
it was mapped but not during my ownership, yesterday I've put standard air box with KN filter, full 3" decat and today mapper has put 3 port boost solenoid and then it got mapped.
Here is my vid.
Not brilliant as was on my own! Towards the end, you can just about hear the flutter noise I'm talking about over the induction noise. I'm not booting it and slowly getting boost with the noise occurring around 1 bar and not when lifting off the power. It is a bit intermittent when it happens really. The boost gauge needle wavers when it's doing it. Is this turbo stall and it can't give any more? Sometimes around 1 bar but if booting it, it can be at max boost 1.5 bar. Hard to compare to the two example vids you posted above?
My last standard sti without induction kit or map didn't do it.
sounds mostly like the wastegate and boost solenoid doing their job - wouldn't worry about that at all mr.
But also it sounds like your quite low in RPM too - I know that was probably for the purposes of the video but really you should be aiming to avoid low RPM/high load situations like that as it just places unnecessary stress on the engine. If you need to overtake drop a gear and get the revs up - they gave the car 6 gears for a reason
sounds mostly like the wastegate and boost solenoid doing their job - wouldn't worry about that at all mr.
But also it sounds like your quite low in RPM too - I know that was probably for the purposes of the video but really you should be aiming to avoid low RPM/high load situations like that as it just places unnecessary stress on the engine. If you need to overtake drop a gear and get the revs up - they gave the car 6 gears for a reason
Cheers bud! Yes I was in low revs just trying to get it to show a good example. If booting it, lots of noise and everything happening quick so couldn't film as well. Will try and get someone to film a better one! Just wanted to Fathom out if induction kit was causing it due to more air in?
its kinda of a mixture of the induction kit and the car being mapped with a big open downpipe. The lack of restriction means its much easier to hit target boost and you can hear the chopping effect of the boost solenoid regulating manifold pressure/boost - so what your hearing is a combination of the sucking effect of the turbo combined with the wooshing sound of the exhaust/turbo wastegate operating as they should.
Here we go, much better example to show you all
As you can see, it starts to 'flutter' just after 1 bar with the flutter sound and needle waver and feels like it's run out of puff.
Sometimes it's nearer to 1.5 bar at its max if driving it hard which is understandable but 1 bar seems to low to be doing that?
bludgod seems to explain it and great to hear your views. As I didn't do the mods or map its difficult to say if it's on song or not and depends how you drive it. Do we all recon it's good or not? Cheers
still seems normal for a mapped up car - the turbo could be putting out more air than you engine can consume so you get the fluttery effect, this can happen at different RPM/boost levels and is common enuff on cars with big open downpipes and smooth high flowing intakes.
If it was me mapping the car I'd normally map it out if I can at the expense of a little power - but on some of the bigger downpipes the noise just gives me the heebie jeebies!
13 October 2015, 11:17 AM
Advice on induction kit removal
