best boost controller for the money?
16 March 2015, 11:10 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
best boost controller for the money?
Hello there fellow scoobynet users.
What is the best boost controller for the money we can have?
Price range has to be about 2-300 for new/second hand one.
so far I got these, but from most I have no real feedback:
Apexi AVCR type R - them old ones for £2-300
Apexi AVCR them new black ones which for some reason are cheaper. Why?
GReddy Profec which is too cheap i think. any good?
BLITZ SBC I-COLOR SPEC-R - this is over my budget but it can display a wide O2 A/F ratio which then justifies £150 out of it's price. Wide O2 sensor is a must for me to have as i`m running NOS and want to keep an eye on A/F all the time.
Any Ideas? i need 1-2 shortlisted then I can go and ask my mapper which one he prefers.
Kind Regards.
What is the best boost controller for the money we can have?
Price range has to be about 2-300 for new/second hand one.
so far I got these, but from most I have no real feedback:
Apexi AVCR type R - them old ones for £2-300
Apexi AVCR them new black ones which for some reason are cheaper. Why?
GReddy Profec which is too cheap i think. any good?
BLITZ SBC I-COLOR SPEC-R - this is over my budget but it can display a wide O2 A/F ratio which then justifies £150 out of it's price. Wide O2 sensor is a must for me to have as i`m running NOS and want to keep an eye on A/F all the time.
Any Ideas? i need 1-2 shortlisted then I can go and ask my mapper which one he prefers.
Kind Regards.
17 March 2015, 12:12 AM
#3
Can I ask what's probably a REALLY naive question? If a car is mapped for "x" bar boost, I can understand you might want to occasionally run less boost (rather than be lighter on the throttle, maybe); but you surely can't run higher boost without it being mapped for it?
So why do people use boost controllers? Without a "self-adjusting" ECU (which OEM Subaru ECU isn't, as I understand), what do you gain?
So why do people use boost controllers? Without a "self-adjusting" ECU (which OEM Subaru ECU isn't, as I understand), what do you gain?
17 March 2015, 12:33 AM
#4
because fuel cut doesn't kick in until 19psi - people wrongly assume that if the car doesn't fall into limp mode and buck and cry then everything must be fine.
Sure you gain mad boost game bro - but really you'd be better spending the money on a quality remap and the boost will all be set for you.
*edit* but yeah AVCR is a good job if you need to go over 24psi or your factory boost control for some reason can't be used.
Sure you gain mad boost game bro - but really you'd be better spending the money on a quality remap and the boost will all be set for you.
*edit* but yeah AVCR is a good job if you need to go over 24psi or your factory boost control for some reason can't be used.
Last edited by bludgod; 17 March 2015 at 12:35 AM.
17 March 2015, 12:40 AM
#7
The Subaru ECU's are self adjusting. But only within the parameters of the parts in the system and the map. That's why it uses a lambda (or two in newer cars) and maf, map, knock sensor etc. Then changes boost via the solenoid duty and fueling by injector duty.
You can increase and decrease boost a bit safely without a remap IF and only IF you know what you are doing. To do this you can use a manual or electronic controller. But it's not the way I would recommend and you will never get the same results as a remap.
Why would you use one on top of a remap? I don't know... better boost control? I will let somebody else answer that one.
You can increase and decrease boost a bit safely without a remap IF and only IF you know what you are doing. To do this you can use a manual or electronic controller. But it's not the way I would recommend and you will never get the same results as a remap.
Why would you use one on top of a remap? I don't know... better boost control? I will let somebody else answer that one.
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17 March 2015, 09:44 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
No ECU is going to self-adjust.It will try as any other ECU but it won't be near as good as a properly mapped one. And I need the boost controller because the boost controller in the apexi ECU is not that good, giving it problems to keep it under control. Thanks.
17 March 2015, 09:45 AM
#9
Scooby Regular
Apexi should cope with the boost no problems, sounds like you have another issue.
17 March 2015, 10:12 AM
#10
I also said that it would not be a substitute for a remap.
So an ecu DOES self adjust. Just not as much as you need when you start swapping components or fuel.
If it was unable to self adjust there would be not point in having a lambda.
17 March 2015, 10:18 AM
#12
Yes it is exactly that. That's why resets help after an ecu has adjusted itself to bad fuel or some other issue. Avcs is another example of ecus adjusting timing. The second O2 sensor in later cars adjusts fuel trim depending in the post cat O2 levels.... Or maybe all the sensors are fitted because they look pretty.
17 March 2015, 10:45 AM
#13
Yes it is exactly that. That's why resets help after an ecu has adjusted itself to bad fuel or some other issue. Avcs is another example of ecus adjusting timing. The second O2 sensor in later cars adjusts fuel trim depending in the post cat O2 levels.... Or maybe all the sensors are fitted because they look pretty.
17 March 2015, 10:57 AM
#14
Thank you. And as I stated if you change boost via a manual or electronic boost controller and do no other work the ecu will adjust the rich/lean mixture to compensate.
BUT only by a very small amount and for this reason it is not advised. You will in effect be using up the safe buffer zone that was built in to compensate for environmental changes and fuel quality. In any respect the fuel cut will remain the same. And you also risk going lean and wrecking the engine.
I was only trying to answer a persons question on why you may use a boost controller. Not take over the thread explaining to people how a modern ECU works... So anyway. Back on topic. The op wants to know which boost controller is best.
BUT only by a very small amount and for this reason it is not advised. You will in effect be using up the safe buffer zone that was built in to compensate for environmental changes and fuel quality. In any respect the fuel cut will remain the same. And you also risk going lean and wrecking the engine.
I was only trying to answer a persons question on why you may use a boost controller. Not take over the thread explaining to people how a modern ECU works... So anyway. Back on topic. The op wants to know which boost controller is best.
17 March 2015, 11:07 AM
#16
Agreed.
But the op says he has an apexi ecu... So must already have a remap.
And as has been stated it seems a bit odd that an upgraded and mapped ecu can't handle boost control? Are we talking crazy boost levels? Or is it the n2o that is causing issues for the ecu?
But the op says he has an apexi ecu... So must already have a remap.
And as has been stated it seems a bit odd that an upgraded and mapped ecu can't handle boost control? Are we talking crazy boost levels? Or is it the n2o that is causing issues for the ecu?
Last edited by FMJ; 17 March 2015 at 11:12 AM.
17 March 2015, 01:11 PM
#17
The Subaru ECU's are self adjusting. But only within the parameters of the parts in the system and the map. That's why it uses a lambda (or two in newer cars) and maf, map, knock sensor etc. Then changes boost via the solenoid duty and fueling by injector duty.
You can increase and decrease boost a bit safely without a remap IF and only IF you know what you are doing. To do this you can use a manual or electronic controller. But it's not the way I would recommend and you will never get the same results as a remap.
Why would you use one on top of a remap? I don't know... better boost control? I will let somebody else answer that one.
You can increase and decrease boost a bit safely without a remap IF and only IF you know what you are doing. To do this you can use a manual or electronic controller. But it's not the way I would recommend and you will never get the same results as a remap.
Why would you use one on top of a remap? I don't know... better boost control? I will let somebody else answer that one.
This is why modded air intakes can make the car go bang. Adjusting the boost doesn't do anything to the ECU, it has a set of tables for engine load and when you wind up the boost artificially you go beyond the scope of those tables. This is why the remap is necessary to give the ECU timing that can be used safely in the new load areas of the map instead of reading the old maximum value which may be too high. The other important thing to note is the ECU disables part of it's knock control when the load gets over a preset value. So you won't get knock correction, you just get det. det det det until you can't det no more.
Depending on his car, it may only have a 1.2 bar map sensor - so we could assume he needs the boost controller as it's cheaper than the apexi boost control addon for the powerFC.
17 March 2015, 01:32 PM
#19
you made a dawes device - not a boost controller though. It opens at a preset spring pressure which results in faster onset of boost but also potentially part throttle full boost which is bad. It can't compensate for atmospheric conditions and has no relativity to the boost actually being produced.
They can be handy jobs on a wee track car or a runabout though - had one on my old GT4!
They can be handy jobs on a wee track car or a runabout though - had one on my old GT4!
17 March 2015, 02:29 PM
#24
17 March 2015, 02:38 PM
#26
i'm not one to argue with a guy who is "pretty sure". Boost control is a different topic from mapping the car to suit the mods or if your car is running lean or not. if your pretty sure I'm assuming you have a wideband O2 and have checked and confirmed your fuelling in line with your EGT's so you know your new boost levels are safe. If not maybe you are running lean and maybe you are risking your engine - that's your call and your welcome to it.
17 March 2015, 02:40 PM
#27
My boost is set at 1.45 bar and my boost cut at 1.5 bar, so overboost is not an issue.
Plus I have one of these,
But then everyone will already have a wideband before even contemplating boost control
Plus I have one of these,
But then everyone will already have a wideband before even contemplating boost control
.
17 March 2015, 02:45 PM
#29
I would be interested to know how many people know what AFR they should be running on boost and also who knows what pinking sounds like (and had actually heard it in real life).
I do (1)
I do (1)
17 March 2015, 02:45 PM
#30
So do all te electronic boost controls drop boost when they hear pinking or see a lean mixture? I didn't think they did that?