328isport

iTrader: (6)

Hi All,

I have a MY97 Turbo 2000 and considering ESL, partly to boost power, but also so I can go mafless for reliability and get the most out of the car in terms of drivability. I'm not seeking big power.

Currently the car has a 2.5" exhaust fitted with 2nd decat, but has the original downpipe inc cat which I'm keen to retain as have no issues with MOTs at the moment.

My question is with the current spec and looking for 250-260hp, will I get away with just uprating the fuel pump and leaving everything else? Or will I need 440cc injectors and a full decat?

GazJenno

You won't need 440's and should be ok with the original downpipe at that power level. I've never had a problem running a 20year old green label MAF at 1.38bar and over 320bhp. I cant remember which MAF's have reliability issues though as Ive not been on here for a while... personally I would aim for more power if changing to an ESL.

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Hi Gaz, thanks for your info, perhaps it will be worth getting another set of stock injectors or 440's and having them professionally cleaned anyway, seeing as mine won't have been touched for 16 years/98k.

Re the MAF, mines not given me any problems but the car did come with the original MAF in a box when I bought it (the prev owner kept everything!) suggesting it failed at some point. My thinking is though if ESL can be run mafless with no side effects, then why not do it and take the MAF out of the picture.

I know what your saying about power, but my car is largely original and I intend to keep it that way, so it's a matter of maximising its potential but staying within the limits of other components also. if I go for more power then it could easily snowball and before I know it I'll be looking at new clutches/gearboxes/better brakes/bigger wheels and so on! It's pretty good right now as I just jump in a drive it, no faffing about or worrying about funny noises etc, and of course it flies through MOT's!

So if I can retain this but get myself a bit more kick with optimised delivery then I'll be a happy man!

GazJenno

I understand you. Nothing wrong with trying to increase reliability. Again from a personal point of view I wouldn't bother with the hassle of removing the injectors for a clean, if run on vpower the additives in the fuel usually do a good job of keeping them clean. Plus you shouldn't be near the high duty cycles at that power... but again if you'd rather air on the cautious side thats fair enough. Might be worth thinking about a better fuel pump and possibly regulator, maybe even reverse the fuel flow in the rail to ensure cylinder 3 right by the turbo has the best supply first.

I didn't realise how much the ESL was, thought it was a lot more. I think you'd be fine just having the ESL and a decent map with your current setup. It should be reliable enough at that power level and will probably gain lower down torque, better off boost fuel economy and over all driving will be improved... whilst being MOT friendly.

Is yours a TD04 turbo?

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Good point re fuel, I've always run it on super, and the last owner had it for 10 years and said he'd never put anything but super it in so maybe the injectors are fine.

It will be getting a Walbro 255lph regardless as I think its on its original pump currently so this is top of the list at the moment power upgrade or not. I'll have a look into FPR's.

Was thinking Race Dynamix for supply and mapping of the ESL as has a pretty good rep. And yep TD04 turbo (something else I don't want to change!)

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

I'd upgrade to a 3" system with sports cat you will notice the difference

GazJenno

If the OP is trying to keep things relatively standard and only improve a bit of drive-ablility, a small power increase and to obtain better fuel economy then a 3" system with sports CAT isn't really needed.

TBH I quite like the idea of what you are trying to do. I've taken my car to the limits of everything it currently has and I do worry about reliability when driving it but its not my main car and was a learning curve. Like you said also, once you think "I wouldn't mind getting to 280" the parts list suddenly jumps to further keep reliability and then you also try to push further and so on.

If I'm right in thinking what you're after I'd say your right with just going ESL, small boost increase, mafless if you really want, Decat centre section, uprated fuel pump and then just enjoy the car and keep it serviced regularly. Too many people seem to take them beyond reliable as well as spending more on after market parts than the cars worth then end up breaking them for spares... tbf if you're sticking with the TD04, you cant really push it beyond its reliable state anyway, in my opinion .

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Yea didn't think a 3" made any noticeable improvement unless above 300hp, I wouldn't have an issue with a sports cat if someone made one that mated to a 2.5" system and was guaranteed to pass MOTs, but I've not come across such a thing. So makes sense to stick to what I have considering the sound of the current exhaust is also perfect for my tastes.

Gaz I'd say your right yes! Economy isn't a major issue but of course any additional improvement would be welcomed, plus of course you get two maps with ESL so I could have one at standard boost to use at this time of the year and the higher boost map for when conditions allow.

Ultimately I just want to keep a balance, the car has some mods which generally improve it, like Eibach springs, Black Diamond discs and pads, Hardrace engine mounts, front strut brace... but this is what I want to keep up, mods that improve it and make it more fun, 250-260hp will make it more enjoyable but not at the expense of everything else. Likewise at some point I'll probably get the geo done properly and ALK fitted, but I'll keep my 16's and 205 tyres, so I can keep the car exploitable.. balance :-)

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

Why not buy a prodrive ecu, filter and sports cat.

It made quite a difference to mine, made the power come smoother and boost seem to stay on longer. My old WRX was bout 280bhp that was perfect amount of power

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Prodrive ECU isn't an option for MY97 is it? I thought that could only be done on the later classics

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

Yes 97/98 are same 3 plug yellow, check your ECU

And here is a Prodrive sports cat

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-to-20...item2a34ced741

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Hi Jay,

Interesting thanks, so a 97/98 Prodrive ECU should be plug and play, I'll keep an eye out for one, only thing is they don't seem to come up very often and the ones I've seen (only for 99-00 cars so far) aren't exactly cheap. Am I right in saying the Prodrive ecu's should be labelled 'SP'?

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

I got one for mine, so they do come up, yes labelled sp, not fitted mine yet, might need keys recoding i'm not sure on that.

328isport

iTrader: (6)

Yea from what I've read you definitely need the keys recoding, which looks like a 30 min labour charge from a dealer, though I do wonder if they can still do this OK, given the age of the cars. Will be interesting to hear how you get on when you fit yours!

This thread is worth a read;

http://www.sussexscoobies.co.uk/foru...drive-ECU-MY98

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

Guy i bought it off said he just plugged it in, so i don't really know

Heard can get it done for £15 lol

Cheers for info, will try fitting it soon and see if works, if not will need recoding i guess