savage bulldogs

iTrader: (6)

had my 97 uk turbo mapped on the road last year with maffless esl although I was impressed with the improved performance it didn't give the sort of figures I expected on the rolling road later in the year. when I asked the the rolling road operator why he thought the figures were a bit low he said it was the very rich fuelling
iv since fitted a rebuilt v1 sti long engine with different cams,heads,headers,upipe,injectors,turbo, and had it mapped by a different mapper due to my previous afr rolling road results .
same symptoms under powered and over fuelling AFR graph that looks like a ECG
the only components that were on both maps that I could think of that would possibly cause these symptoms are;
sports cat its a zigen turbo back (so not a cheap ebay jobbie)
V3 sti tmic (heat soak maybe)
esl ecu maybe its making the fueling richer as both maps seemed to drive ok and pull clean on the road

well heres a pic of both maps afr readings overlayed
red is tdo4 @1.2 bar uk turbo engined AFR
blue is the tdo5 @ 1.4 bar forged cdb AFR


I know cars that are mapped on the road don't shine on the rolling road but other scoobs on the day that were road mapped showed similar figures with less mods and a cleaner AFR (same mapper but the scoobs are running ecutek)
seems strange that both mappers have a good rep (so im not blaming them) and the graphs are very similar . Although the major dip in the blue graph happens at a later rpm (its probably due to the tdo5 making boost later)
any input or other mafless esl graphs would be great
thanks in advance
clive

Andy Stevens

It could do with a bit of fuel removing on spool up. The rest looks good, maybe a bit rich at the redline but that may have been done for reliability.

The artificial loading of a dyno will mean it will trace a different path through the map than it does on the road. I suspect the AFR trace will look different on the road.

savage bulldogs

iTrader: (6)

Cheers andy and I understand why they would have made it rich at the top (tbo I never hit over 6k rpm)
Pretty much what the mapper said about the graph looking different on the road .
Just seems strange how both maps have almost identical afrs and seem to flood the power .oil temp seems quite low @ 94 º max after coming of the carriageway and being stuck in trafic (so it's not running that hot)
Think I'm going to get a decat and remap again but on a rolling road this time.
As my brvs apexi v 1 sti has same cams ,turbo and hit 60 more hp on the same dyno (with a decat and fmic)

Andy Stevens

Yea, if you are after a dyno figure is has to be done on a dyno really. Might not drive quite so well on the road though. The power figure tells you nothing about how the car drives, how do the two cars perform on the road?

Andy Stevens

Just seen the decat and fmic, that will make a big difference, especially if you are running a standard top mount and OEM cat.

savage bulldogs

iTrader: (6)

Thanks again for the input andy
The tmic is a sti one and the cats a sports cat
I'm fairly sure now it's been caused by my alarm system/ tracker which cuts power to the ecu within a few seconds of you opening the door it was interfering with the loading of the second map
I was fairly sure it was something simple as I know the esl and the mapper are more than up to the job .
And I think it pulled well enough on the mapping day to break my 5 speed 2 wks later

MartynJ

Whilst I agree with what you have said above, the bottom bit is utter tosh.

As the car runs MAFLESS the AFR trace SHOULD be very similar on the road, 1 bar of boost is 1 bar of boost wherever it's made.
The car doesn't know or care whether it's on the road or on a dyno.

You'd be quite correct however stating that fact if it was still MAF based as the way the airflow is presented to the filter can differ from road to dyno and even from dyno to dyno due to differing fan designs.

Andy Stevens

Yea, TY752 gearboxes are reknowned for doing that on a torquey motor, they tend to be the weak link in the equation. That's the bit the power figure reveals no info on.

Dmacnz

Does anyone have a Target AFR map for a 400hp is subaru?!!
Curious about how soon to richen up the map when coming onto boost, and to not have a big jump from closed to open loop!

Andy Stevens

Not sure I'm following you correctly, but the boost profile on the dyno and the road is likely to be different due to the different loading. The fuel map axes are load (mani pressure) vs engine speed so it will trace a different path through the map and track through different fuel cells. The fact that it is rich on spool and then settles to what you would expect tends to support that theory.

Andy Stevens

Can send you my 550hp one, not sure how helpful it will be though as fuel and car specs are quite different.