Dmacnz

Hi All,

First post on here and hoping to try and get some help.
I have a 99' JDM WRX but has a version 2 engine which I am trying to get around 300-320hp. The engine is a good condition with around 80k on the clock.

I have a ESL daughter board arriving in a few days to help me tune.

The mods will be
460cc injectors
255lph Walbro Pump
FMIC
Apexi intake and filter
3" dump and exhuast
The stock turbo is the T05

The ESL come with a 6K map loaded as a "starting point". I have read everything and anything that I could find on EFI tuning.
If I start with the 6K map and knock off a few degrees of timing on the base map and start with a low boost.
Am i safe to start logging a few pulls go gather data? I also have a Innovate LM2 to log A/f's from a wide-band.
(Keeping a eye on knock count and A/F's)

I know I should get a pro to help me tune, But I am living in Macau (SAR of China) And its not the kind of place where a dyno or ECU tuners is available!

Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Dan

Dmacnz

Any info would be a great help, Thanks

madmarx

iTrader: (1)

There is a new mapping section in the tech forum. Maybe a mod will move your post there.

Dmacnz

Thanks, Hopefully someone can move it for me!

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Hi mate I think due to the nature of mapping and potential risks very few will be willing to commit to giving advice in case somthing goes wrong
The only real advice I could give is what you already know
If you want to pull things down to keep safer by all means yes do it
But more important take your time when your going up , start small and keep going , you can never log too much , obviously don't go tweaking and go out doing wot pulls straight away , do some logs read through and get to know what your looking at and you will get the hang of it ,
There's no rush at all , take your time Mate and you will be fine
John banks , stu , are the ones to ask they have a lot more in depth knowledge
Tony

Bob Rawle

If you have a MY99 car then the ESL upgrade will not be usable with it as thats only for MY93 to MY98 vehicles.

cheers

bob

dj219957

6k map is a pre 96 car map. i doubt it would make a suitable base for a post 96 car.

Dmacnz

The car is a 99, But the engine is a older version 1 or 2, Currently with a Z4 ECU. The car is new to me, but clearly had a engine replaced with a older model.

Dmacnz

Also sorry more questions, I plan on starting with a ignition map retarded a few degrees and slowly advancing from there.
My question! Is is best to advance the Base map, Ignition advance map or both!
I understand the concept of the tuning clear enough from a heap of research and reading, but there is a few things "different" about the suby and its "smart" ecu!

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for the help
Dan

toneh

iTrader: (1)

You would do your base timing first and then your advance but it's sort of like doing them together ,,, your base + your advance combined are your total timing ,Your base is what it says , that's your timing map ,,, the advance is used also what it says but you decide where and how much to advance depending on the tune ,fuel quality ,ect
But make sure your fueling is correct first and a set of det cans are a bonus
Do some logging and take a look to see what's happening , look where it's pulling timing or knock
I don't know what software you have For logging and I can only speak from my 01 bugeye

Tony

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Using the ESL software first and foremost get the fueling right in the idle and cruise areas of the map. This will make a lot more sense for a novice in maf based format. Once the fueling is safe and consistent work on the boost control and ignition but be prepared for fueling changes based on these.

Det cans aren't a bonus they are a necessity. Wideband AFR monitoring is also essential.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Toneh - I would be VERY careful tuning to the factory knock control even on a newage ecu ! Some cars listen better than others and could be merrily detting away without taking any action itself.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree , that's why I told him to go steady and use his eyes and ears ,

Andy Stevens

Hi Dan,

The ignition grids of the 6K are identical to the Z4, both very popular base maps and likely to see you straight into the ballpark. When you first comm up to the ECU, save a copy of the 6K so you can return to it if necessary. Depending on the fuel quality in Macau and the level of boost you have to run, you may need to shave a few degrees off here and there, but on a low boost map, the ignition values should be fine. I personally tend to work with the base map, keeping a close eye on the total ignition map.

You can log cyclical knock count as well as the IAM. The count is one of the primary measures used to set the IAM, so gives you a bit more detail. If you see big jumps in the count, that is indicative of detonation, and is likely to be accompanied by a decrease in IAM.

Logging the map axes will enable you to see exactly where you should pull some timing or add fuel. The ECU will attempt to do this for you, so you can interrogate the knock control fine map to see the knock 'trims' and map them out if necessary.

The knock control is 3 stage, so will also add fuel and pull boost if the IAM drops far enough. Subaru created an extremely robust system as I guess they didn't want much in the way of warranty claims, had to allow for a large variation in fuel quality around the world and had the resources to commission and test a properly engineered solution.

Also, ensure reset on map switch is set to true, and switch maps. This will reset the IAM to 8 (by default, you can change this value).

If the car is running well, the IAM will pull up to the maximum 16 after a few on boost runs.

Your best friend is the manual,

www.enduringsolutions.com/Manual.pdf

If you read this in all its gory detail you will be ahead of most and have all you need to map successfully.

Duncan and Bob who have posted here are amongst the the most prolific domestic current generation ESL mappers, as well as being involved in the development process, so their advice will be sound (especially the bit about widebands and det cans). As toneh says, it is good of them to be forthcoming for a number of reasons.

It may be prudent to caveat this thread, with the greatest of respect to those who populate internet forums, with the fact that not many people have seen the latest ESL software outside of the professional circle, so while debate is welcomed, your mileage may vary with advice from those without direct experience.

Let us know how it goes, it would be nice to see some more ESL equipped cars in Macau.

Cheers

Andy

toneh

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Andy Stevens;10760017]Hi Dan,

The ignition grids of the 6K are identical to the Z4, both very popular base maps and likely to see you straight into the ballpark. When you first comm up to the ECU, save a copy of the 6K so you can return to it if necessary. Depending on the fuel quality in Macau and the level of boost you have to run, you may need to shave a few degrees off here and there, but on a low boost map, the ignition values should be fine. I personally tend to work with the base map, keeping a close eye on the total ignition map.

You can log cyclical knock count as well as the IAM. The count is one of the primary measures used to set the IAM, so gives you a bit more detail. If you see big jumps in the count, that is indicative of detonation, and is likely to be accompanied by a decrease in IAM.

Logging the map axes will enable you to see exactly where you should pull some timing or add fuel. The ECU will attempt to do this for you, so you can interrogate the knock control fine map to see the knock 'trims' and map them out if necessary.

The knock control is 3 stage, so will also add fuel and pull boost if the IAM drops far enough. Subaru created an extremely robust system as I guess they didn't want much in the way of warranty claims, had to allow for a large variation in fuel quality around the world and had the resources to commission and test a properly engineered solution.

Also, ensure reset on map switch is set to true, and switch maps. This will reset the IAM to 8 (by default, you can change this value).

If the car is running well, the IAM will pull up to the maximum 16 after a few on boost runs.

Your best friend is the manual,

www.enduringsolutions.com/Manual.pdf

If you read this in all its gory detail you will be ahead of most and have all you need to map successfully.

Duncan and Bob who have posted here are amongst the the most prolific domestic current generation ESL mappers, as well as being involved in the development process, so their advice will be sound (especially the bit about widebands and det cans). As toneh says, it is good of them to be forthcoming for a number of reasons.

It may be prudent to caveat this thread, with the greatest of respect to those who populate internet forums, with the fact that not many people have seen the latest ESL software outside of the professional circle, so while debate is welcomed, your mileage may vary with advice from those without direct experience.

Let us know how it goes, it would be nice to see some more ESL equipped cars in Macau.

Mmm bit odd with respect, yourself and Duncan have just repeated what I've said
Only I said it in simple terms , I can't see what information the op has been given so far that should make him beware !

Tony

Andy Stevens

Hi Tony

That wasn't directed at you, just the interwebs in general.

Cheers

Andy

toneh

iTrader: (1)

No worries , I'm the most defensive , touchy person on s/n
And daftest by all accounts

Andy Stevens

Lol, believe me when I say you are very far away from having that distinction.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Lol , gonna be a queue waiting to argue that one with you

Cheers tony

Dmacnz

Thanks all for the informative reply! Andy Thanks again, I think I could almost recite the ESL Manual verbatim now!
Was just after a bit of clarification!
Have a leak to sort out today, then its going to be a big day, with new fuel pump, injectors, FMIC and the ESL to go on! Also the a Innovate LM2 Wide band to get in the exhaust to make sure I dont make a mess to the fuelling!

Thanks Again,
Dan

Andy Stevens

No problem Dan, if its not in the manual or ambiguous it's useful for me to know and I will add/alter it.

It might look a complicated system at first glance but we have tried to design the software to be user friendly and it comes with base maps that should be already there or thereabouts if running MAF based load. You can just treat it like a simpler ECU if you want and just play with fuel, boost and ignition and let the more advanced features look after themselves or you can go nuts, mafless and IAT, dual fuel, any turbo/injector/sensor spec you want, the sky is the limit.

Any questions drop me an email and I'll answer ASAP. Have fun with it.

Dmacnz

Would going MAFless from the start be too step a learning curve? I have a new GM IAT sensor sitting in my pile of parts to go on the car!
Only asking as the MAF sensor is 15 years old now and with a FMIC the MAF could be a bit of a problem with the 5ft of intake tubing!? Opinions!

Have the Log-able Wideband installed today and working great, Also have it logging RPM and MAP. Hopefully can help me find "weak" spots in my tune!

Andy Stevens

The shape of the fuel map changes, so you alter it to suit the different response of the MAP over the MAF. It will take more time as the base map is set up to run MAF.

One of the beauties of the ESL system is that you can try both. The MAF/MAFless mode is selectable by a software switch. AFAIK that is unique.

Dmacnz

Maybe I'll stick with the MAF for the first few weeks then!
Am i right in thinking when going Mafless alot of fuel is pulled from the map at low loads due to the expo exponational scale of the MAF vs the MAP sensor?
Maybe I am getting well ahead of my self but MAFess seems like a much nicer option!!

Bob Rawle

Not really, it takes a greater degree of thought to get a speed density map to work, the maf helps you a lot when you are inexperienced. Mapping speed density cannot be done by the numbers, that goes out the window.

cheers

bob