boosted

Can anyone help point me in the right direction, looking to buy some professional, proper, det cans that work and I can rely on.
Where can I get them from and what sort of money? Thanks

wms-racing

One mapper I have done alot of work with just used a pair of ear defenders and a plastic tube fitted into one of the ear pieces and the other end fitted onto a copper pipe He bolted onto the block. He said it was the best way to hear the det??

boosted

That's what I have just now, not getting great results with it. Too much background noise for me.
I know what pinking sounds like, I usually just tune by ear without any tools.
Been looking at these;
http://www.phormula.com/KnockAnalyserPro.aspx
Andy forest and zen use them

boosted

Any help with this one?
Surely the people of scoobynet are not using a cheap diy knock detection method?

neil-h

The big question is what do you hope to gain by buying a different system? Home made det cans seem to do the job rather nicely so why pay more?

boosted

I have home made ones on just now, maybe I haven't induced enough det yet! But I can't hear anything. Surely some electronic filtering and amplification helps? How loud will the det be over the valve and gearbox noise I can currently hear? 👂

MartynJ

Phormula knock analyser pro for me too.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

if your getting too much noise using hose pipe/tubing, use an electronic set of det cans, use headphone wire instead of the tubing

i thought i was hearing det using my tubed form of det cans, until i gave it some beans and my knock link went nuts and then i heard det, crispy bacon frying at full heat !!!

boosted

Massive clarity over diy ones?

boosted

So what your saying is I'm maybe no hearing det yet?
I have always tuned timing on the safe side and only ever heard det without tools.
I don't want to ramp loads of timing in if I'm not going to hear it correctly.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Yup, im suspecting your not hearing any Det, as i say, i thought i was hearing det but it was just background noise, injectors tapping, lifters lifting etc, then one day i advanced the timing more, gave it some, my knocklink hit green/green/amber amber, i kept going, no real change in my ears, THEN the knocklink hit the red LED and instantly bang, bacon frying in my ears at full heat ! , scared the crap out of me !

when you hear Det, you will know !

boosted

Interesting, I'm only at 14 degrees advance at .7 bar boost, so well out of det.
Might put some timing in and see if I can get it to pink. Suspect it will take more than 20 degrees.
My other question is, do you hink you would hear it without the det cans?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

14 degress unless fuelling is very lean you wont get Det, around 19 degress and 1.3 bar boost i got det at 6000 rpm , lowered advance and lowered boost.#

id say no, you cant hear det without detcans

boosted

She pinks!
Diy det cans work! Had to put a lot more timing in.
Thanks for the reassurance on the DIY cans. Even at .7 bar I have much better response and power after putting in a lot of timing.
Now to wind up the boost...

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Good man, is amazing how much more ooomph the car gives with that timing advanced at higher rpm lol

happy to help bud, just go careful, the gearboxes dont like alot of torque ha :-)

boosted

My gearbox should be fine, im running a six speed audi box in my blob. 👍🚙🔥🔥🔥

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Jammy git lol

just replaced mine, like for like ha, will get a stock pile of them for the future ........ lol

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

I'm ready to fit my diy detcans now,have you run the pipe through the bulkhead and into the cabin,or run it on the outside of the car?
You say you've advanced the timing a lot from 14 @0.7bar so what was the figure when you heard the onset of knock? And how many degrees are you running now?

boosted

Yes though the bulkhead for just now.
Not sure my base timing is perfect so any advance figure I quote will not be accurate I'm afraid.
Will have to check my base timking and put in the appropriate offset.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

I use Phormula as well, but recently I installed the Gizzmo dual channel kit in the Dyno and think I prefer it now.

As an aside, why are you guys quoting advance figures without RPM and then poking them in your tables?

boosted

And would you say the phormula has a massive advantage over diy cans for hearing det?
I'm trying not to quote any exact timing figures, as my timing map can't be relied on by others

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

boosted - when I started tinkering I found it easier to use a flat knock correction advance map (just use the same value across the board) and then do the edits in the base timing table. This way you only have to look at the base timing table to get a handle on how smooth it is - lumpy bits or big changes in timing will often set off the knock sensor and the car will pull back.

Also don't forget to check out the compressor map for your turbo if it came with one, if you stray too far from the sweet spot you'll end up having to drop a butt load of timing for no extra power it's not always about how much boost you can make.

*edit* also using DIY detcans here built from an ebay hearing aid jobby and some bose headphones and they've been spot on for me.

boosted

All good input guys.
I'm using MS2 bludgod, so my timing figures are exactly what the engine uses. Last night we just advanced timing at 3000 rpm in boost until in knocked, pulled out 5 degrees (was 4 degrees ambient temp so I am compensating for a hotter day)
Did the same at 3500, 4000, 4500 etc.
Also put more timing in off boost 2-3000 rpm, until we reached max vacuum without hoiteryness.
Car is much crisper to drive on and off boost- naturally
As for compressor map, and evident of it being outwith it's efficientcy and I would see a rise in act.
I can compensate for hot days and heat soak in MS, ait timing retard.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

ohhhh - just for my own curiosity more than anything is there a way to share the megasquirt map/software that I could take a look at it? Wouldn't mind seeing what your working with or how the setup works.

boosted

I can take pics and post them on this thread.
I have switchable maps for fuel and ignition, so I put my timing in the second map and switched between them.
Both fuel maps are currently the same, but I plan on running meth mix, so will need the second fuel and ignition maps for that.
I'm tuning fuel live (shift up/down) on a 3d map

boosted

boosted

Many more options available;
Boost control, launch control, knock correction (with use of external knock device like Ks4)
Idle control, loads

MartynJ

Worlds apart, course if you'd have listened to me in the first place and fitted an Alcatek, you'd have had closed loop knock control as standard

boosted

Regardless of knock control the ignition timing still needs mapped and checked with det cans.
Don't know anything about Allatec so can't really comment, i take it that the software is available free to download and look at? A mate has just bought an Alkatec ecu, so might be involved in it yet....
I take it you just use an RS232 cable to com with it?

MartynJ

Yes it would but it's much nicer to do when you have a safety net
The knock control will remove igntion, add fuel, remove boost and flash the cel at points which are set by the person mapping the car.
Software isn't freeware but a programming kit isn't expensive at £75 and includes the communication cable and security dongle.