The Rig

iTrader: (13)

As i understand the whole mapping world very very very basicly, i am no means knowledgable LOL, with alot of help from guys on here and the world wide web i have been mapping my car using the ESL board, ive included a screen shot of my Map, my question, she seems to drive o.k but without having her on the rolling road i just thought id show the map and see what people think, i know each car is different etc but to me the map looks o.k, but as i say, what do i know LOL , i was aiming for alot of low down torque but again, i dont really know how to achieve this without an RR session ?!?!?

car is 95 wrx running what i hope is 1.3 bar boost on the TD05.

Bigger TMIC
440 Injectors
later spec MAP sensor
Pierburg Boost solenoid
uprated fuel pump
sportscat
3" HKS cat back system
panel filter
later spec coils

cheers for any input

Andy Stevens

The logs tend to be more useful when determining how the car is doing, is your IAM at 16? What does your fine knock control map look like? What is the manifold pressure trace like on a pull? Why do you say you hope it is 1.3bar?

A few comments;

The min solenoid duty is too high, the values below that in the duty map will default to 61.

You can extend the range of the TPS beyond 61% to get more proportional control.

The boost rpm axis could be better spaced. There is only one duty value for 3800-5600rpm.

Go for 100% in the full throttle duty line up to spool point. This will give minimum lag. Only pull it back if you experience surge.

It's easier to read the total ignition map.

I know alot of the above were just the defaults in the standard map, so not directly criticising you, but just some food for thought going forward.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Are you using wideband and detcans?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Hi Andy, cheers for the input, im still trying to digest what you wrote LOL

One thing i can answer right now, my IAM is set to 0, i didnt set that, i assume it was default 0 ? im guessing it should be 16 ?

what would you suggest the minimum solenoid duty should be to get good low down torque with the maximum boost being 1.3 bar ?

Go for 100% in the full throttle duty line up to spool point ? do you mean the row that reads 90.2, make this 100 ? or do you mean row 61 upto 2900 rpm ?

I did say im still very much amatuer so sorry for dumb questions, but learning still

All the rest of what you said i shall digest and work forward on, thanks , i havent done any logs yet, maybe im doing it wrong but when i did a log of a general run, the excel sheet i used to read the csv file was just a copy of what the map was, afr`s, idle etc, but will work on making some logs with wastegate duty etc being logged.



Jolly, yes, using detcans and wideband

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I IAM is really at 0 then it will be using none of the correction map.... 16 is all of the correction ignition map on top of the base ignition timing.. 0 is none...

You may therefore have too much timing in the map somewhere causing the ecu to detect knock and pull the IAM down.. do an ecu reset so it goes to 8 am watch it learn to see if it increases or decreases is one way to check.

There are other things but that should get you started on the important bit
Simon

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

I think Andy is refering to the columns 0 and 2700 (Both columns and all values in them) for changing to 100% in the duty map, depending on when your turbo spools. This would be determined by viewing logs which need to be taken. Do you see the log counter increasing in time within the software?.

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

Also, IAM shows a value of 0 when in offline mode. What does yours say when connected live to the car?

Bear in mind that most mappers never use the offline mode! Its just us novice chumps!

Andy Stevens

What Wayne said. Your IAM won't be zero. It isn't a value you set (although you can choose its value on ECU reset), it is the ECUs response to knock, like Simon said.

To log it, it needs to be selected in the log tree and then you need to hit the green play button to start logging, it will probably be 16 or close to. It pulls ignition first (applies IAM/16 of advance map), starts to add fuel at IAM<7 and pulls the boost at IAM<2.

Andy Stevens

In respect of solenoid duty, the engine speed axes below the spool point are effectively wasted so I would move those up beyond the spool point and set 100% below.

It isn't possible to give a WG duty figure to match a particular boost as it varies from car to car, so here is how to set it up:

Log manifold pressure, WG duty and engine speed. (make sure the throttle pot puts you on the full throttle line using the trace function, or just read a live log view). Log a 3rd/4th gear pull.

If the mani pres is below your target at full throttle and a particluar engine speed, raise the wg duty at that node. Continue to log and feedback into the full throttle WG duty line until you have a perfect boost curve.

Make sure you have the correct MAP sensor calibration as well of course. Later Subaru cal is in the manual.

Andy Stevens

Instead of excel, the guys at Virtual Dyno have incorporated our log files into their software. Might be worth a look, although I admit I haven't tried it with mine yet, still using Deltadash.

euan_r

iTrader: (29)

Do you notice any difference in brakes coming to junction or that?

I have been playing with denso on my fxt and am targeting vacuum at lowest throttle position.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Hi Guys,

well, doing 1 step at a time from what Andy mentioned, i checked the IAM, under knock control while connected live to the car, it was 110% set to 0 ! so i have set that to 16, is that correct ?

i checked the knock control map, all cells are at 0.00, im guessing as knock control hasnt been abled so once i go out for a blast and if any knock is detected, it logs it here now ive enabled it by setting to 16 ?


IAM control is set to 8 After reset and 9 ignition advance (default, i havent touched this part)


cheers

Andy Stevens

It definitely isn't zero. Where are you reading IAM from? Do you know how to open a watch window (manual p.8) and watch (for example) engine speed live on the screen?

You are making alot of false assumptions about how the knock control system works. You can't directly set IAM and you can't disable knock control. Have a read of p.26.

I can't stress enough the value of reading the manual thoroughly before you start mapping. False assumptions can be dangerous, and when the information is at your fingertips it's a good idea to use it.

http://www.enduringsolutions.com/Manual.pdf

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Hi Andy, how odd lol

im reading the IAM from the knock control tree, expan, then in here are 3 other subfolders, knock control map, IAM and IAM Control.

Is this the correct place to be looking ?

If so, when connected tot he car, it is 0 in this box and i can amend the figure, i can get a screen dump to prove etc, but yesterday, i connected to car, car was idling, the IAM box was 0, i clicked in it and changed it to 16.

if this is the wrong place to be looking, apologises but i dont see any other IAM within the software ?!!?!?

cheers

Andy Stevens

OK, I think I know what it is.

The serial comms queues items with this priority: Writes, Reads, Logs.

When you first hook up it downloads the ECU in the background. If you bring up a table from the menu it prioritises that so you can work while everything else is downloading. During that time logging will pause. That may be what happened when you saw the correct IAM value suddenly appear.

I will mod the software to display something more obvious during a log pause to avoid confusion.

If you want me to walk you through it Rig, drop me an email but I'm packing for hols currently so migth be a bit unresponsive for a week.

HTH

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Hi Andy,

email sent but no rush,unless you want to , you enjoy your hols bud

Speak soon.

Andy Stevens

I'll do my best

Thanks for the feedback, always useful to be able to improve the product, much appreciated.

Speak soon.

Dmacnz

I think I had my iam drop to zero when I first started playing with esl. Think I messed something up!
I amended in to 8. And then it started working as normal and increased to 16.

Bob Rawle

If you are using decent fuel, shell or tesco, and your engine is std compression, then your ignition base on load is far too low and you will be increasing egt for no reason.

Virtual dyno is an american program, so the power units of horse power are american, their units are nothing like our european units so take the figures you get with a liberal pitch of salt. As a very very rough guide american wheel horsepower is roughly our european bhp at the flywheel. (ish)

Put your std three port back on its far better than the Pierburgh as a comment

As Simon mentioned I hope you are using a wideband and det cans and not relying on the afr numbers. You cannot go by that at all however well you "think" its driving

Intended as help not criticism

cheers

bob

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

So if he is running say 15 - 22 deg at full load( base and adv maps) assuming 1.3 bar boost is that going to lead to dangerous egt's? I seem to remember my apexi running from 17 deg to 24 at full load with 1.3 bar boost on a similar spec as Rigs.


With an egt gauge fitted, which looks like a bloody good idea given the info in this thread, what is considered too high?

Dmacnz

Egt above 950 should start worrying.
Or adding timing or fuel!

I was also running about 24 degrees at 1.4 bar similar spec.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Cheers for more input guys, always good to get more input, builds up on my novice status LOL.

So Bob, you say my timing is too low at the base level, so from what load points do you mean (41 to 47 for example ?) and what would you recommend they should be minimum, as i dont have an EGT gauge i cant tell the temps, when the cars are mapped EGT gauges arent used either so there must be a known safe base ignition level ?? and if i do advance the base level ignition, do i then need to retard my advanced level settings to compensate ???

i went for retarded timing with some advance for the ebst power output, i dont get any knock at these settings.

i have used det cans but for some of the tweaks ive been doing ive been relying on my knock link monitor (set to the sensitive setting) and i only get a blip on the lowest green light now and again (tested all led`s work today by tapping on the knock link bolt int he engine bay)

cheers all

Welloilbeefhooked

iTrader: (3)

My knocklink (in last classic wrx) used to light up the red and that was after mapping by a trusted mapper who did a great job. The mapper stated its was a very quiet engine during mapping with det cans. Knocklink removed!

Even the Pfc commander showed very little knock. Use the det cans everytime mate.

SiHethers

Having done a fair amount of "DIY" mapping of my own cars over the last 10 yrs I can offer some advice.

Make sure you approach it systematically and don't get ahead of yourself. Monitor WB lambda at all times and knock particularly when ignition tuning. Set safe timing to start (heeding Bob's advice above, too much retard can cause problems too), and sort your fuelling first, but before you even do that ensure your WB is functional, calibrate to free air correctly. Log everything, it looks like you're sticking with MAF for load so establish some reference points for where closed throttle decel is, idle and 0 MRP is. Sort your fuelling in this load rpm box first (in open loop). Then identify where waste gate pressure is in terms of load and the limits of your boost threshold is to that point. You'll need to use part throttle with zero WG duty to map the low load +ve MRP fuelling. 0.95 at 0 to 0.8 lambda at WG pressure is quite safe as a guide. Then ignition tune that load area. Increase boost 0.1-0.2 and repeat the process in the new area. Each time you'll need to ascertain where on the load axis you're sitting. Because you're MAF tuning the load will tend to drop away despite constant boost at high rpm due to loss of efficiency.

If you search for posts by bob, pat, pavlo, andyf, jgm and john banks from 7-8 yrs ago you'll find a lot of useful info. It's commendable that bob Andy and Simon are offering their advice because given they all work in the professional mapping game, there can be a reluctance to offer too much open advice nowadays.

Si

Dmacnz

Some extremely helpful people on this forum! Andy and Simon(Jolly green monster) have also helped me out a lot with DIY mapping.
Fantastic group support!

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Cheers again guys for some more valuable advice :-)

My knocklink seems to function o.k and is quite sensitive but yeah, detcans are ideal but sometimes, when your tweaking its hard to hook them up compared to just hooking laptop up on a journey but will hook them up on next run.

SiHethers, just as i start to think im getting the hang of it you bamboozle me technical methods LOL, ive just been going by driveability when making adjustments, think its time i start using the logs to smooth out everything, my wideband AFR`s read pretty close to the AFR table within the software, at full load my AFR was 11.3

And yeah, always appreciate the advice of the pro`s, dont think they need to worry about sharing their advice, reading stuff and knowing stuff are 1 different things, im no threat to their workload ha ha ha :-)


Also, as an addition, im still puzzled by what is deemed a safe igntion as a base map, i mean, most of us dont have EGT gauges so dont know the temps and i see from various maps alot have an ignition map around 20-23 degrees at full throttle, since mine is with some advance to make that up, should i increase (advance) base map ign and lower (retard) advance map to make a total ignition of 22 degrees etc ?


cheers

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Rite, going to be making some log runs soon, once the IAM glitch is sorted lol, can anyone tell me, the perfect boost curve, is this within the ESL software or is this meant on a rolling road ?

cheers

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

You're going to have to log your manifold pressure (not meaning to state the obvious ) and check it over and over at all rpm points to try and keep it stable at your desired loads/target boost levels.
This is what is meant by boost curve.
Not sure if there's a virtual suite where you can drop in your logs for a visual representation.

Hth

Tim

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

cheers bud, that helps, like you say, the logs generated are csv files so all text, need to know how to get a visual display to get the curve, unless i can tell the curve from the text logs ?

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

That's what I was trying to explain pal, the values are your curve.

Tim