NBW

After being advised and reading in several places that a replacement exhaust only invalidates the warranty on the original exhaust, not the rest of the car, I had a bit of an unsettling experience today.....

Took the car (18 months old) in for (ironically) some minor warranty work and asked the dealer to fit a Magnex centre pipe that I'd brought along. Service receptionist says 'you know that will invalidate your warranty'. Yes says I, believing that this only refers to the exhaust as above.

However when I got home, I noticed that typed across the invoice is 'this vehicles warranty is void due to the fitting of a non standard exhaust'.

I guess may be I should have had the exhaust fitted elsewhere, but I figure they would spot it at the next service anyway, and besides this dealer supplies and fits Scoobysport exhausts.

Anyone got experience of warranty claims (successful or not) under these circumstances?

Cheers
Tim

Andy Burrell

Tim, I have heard through the grapevine this is happening to a number of people with MY01's and full decat's.I think the dealerships have been told to clamp down heavily on this as it is in effect making the car non roadworthy.

Andy

PING

Tim,

Had me worried too, so I called my local dealer.
I think your warranty issue does stem from the fact that the exhaust is decatted and therefore goes against roadworthiness, etc.

Any mod's could potentially cause a warranty problem. The dealers attitude was if a warranty issue arises (e.g. fitting gauges and an electrical fault occurs later) they would look to see if the problem can be attributed to the mod ... engine and exhausts are going to be very keenly viewed in this light.

My car is MY00, has one year left on the warranty - I was considering adding a further two (£600.00 - eek!), but as I'm adding a Dawes, etc. I'm not sure now abot the warranty if it's going to be a fight to prove ''It's not my fault!'' every time!

Having said this, I would go back to your dealer and challenge them on having given you the impression that the whole warranty is void - don't see why ... exhaust, yes ... the rest, does not make sense. The exhaust is only part of the car.

Keep me posted please!

Steve

Jza

My dealer said that whereas a few years ago the odd de-cat etc would get the "turn a blind eye" treatment, IM have really cracked down on this, and that the dealers are instructed to not allow any mods - at all - in the event of a warrenty claim.....

They would not carry out any warrenty work AT ALL (be it non engine related or whatever) if i fitted de-cats.

I have planned to de-cat the car, but i cant justify the risk to be honest... for the extra 10%+ power..... but in 2 years time im going the full monty!!!

Jza

RichieB

Guys...does this dealer attitude run to backboxes and panel filters or just de-cats. would be very interested to know as I'm booked into Scoobysport for the former quite soon. Like Jza...I can't risk a loss of warranty if there's any chance of that?

Cheers,

Rich

NBW

The actual words are 'No warranty on this vehicle now as exhaust is completely non standard and alters all engine settings'.

I will investigate further and report back.....

I just had a load of warranty work done:

1. Headlight washer pump replaced.
2. Rear wiper relay replaced.
3. Drivers door card replaced.

In the future are they saying I won't get these type of items fixed, because I have changed the exhaust ? Number 3. was not strictly warranty anyway - I broke it, and I told the dealer that, but they still did it under warranty.

I won't change the filter though - I reckon it would be very difficult to persuade IM to honour a engine warranty claim when you've modded the inlet side.....

Cheers
Tim

scoobypig

Glad someone's raised this.
My dealer said OK to fit backbox (of any kind) but absolutely not any other exhaust bits unless as part of PPP.
They have had experience of a 'melted piston' due to decats without ECU mods.
Personally I wouldn't dare risk this on a new car.

NBW

scoobypig,

I can't see that there are too many risks with de-catting, Subaru built quite a lot of self-preservation into the standard ECU on UK cars. I researched this quite carefully, as you say it is a worry with a newish car. Anyway, what's an engine rebuild compared to all the other running costs

Hundreds (thousands?) on here have de-catted, many with other engine mods to, and very few seem to have had major problems.

IMHO this is Subaru scare-mongering to drum up business for PPP's.

It would be interesting to know what other mods the car your dealer mentions had done to it before it went bang

PING, I think Dawes is a different kettle of fish to de-catting. I'm not saying it's not a good mod, but it's too risky for me

BTW I checked the warranty wording and it actually says 'defects, malfunctions or failures resulting from..... installation of parts not equivalent in quality and design suppllied by Subaru UK Limited, add-on parts......'. I think the key phrase here is 'resulting from'.

Cheers
Tim

David1965

Subaru uk told me that any mod to the car invalidated the warranty.

I have changed my brakes and this invalidates the extended warranty I have..

I spook to 3 diffrent dealers, one was happy with just a back box,
another ok with centre section + BB, and the last one said call IM.

Hope this helps

RON

I guess my warranty's useless then!

Brake Neck

It all stops with judge in a court of law. There will almost certainly be case law on this. Any lawyers out there in Scooby world with knowledge? I doubt very much whether your warrnaty can be totally invalidated by addition of anything which does not affect the item concerned. So where does this blanket approach stop? I put Good Year tyres on instead of the Standard fitment of Pirelli's, suspension part goes duff! OH, sorry Sir, non standard tyres... I think not and I think a Judge would agree with me. However, start meddling with engine/performance parts and you are into a much more expensive and greyer area - repairs and legally.
Dave.

mrkimpreza

I have a melted piston now with PPP, decat downpipe and K&N 57i induction kit, car is (sept.) MY99 and has 77kkm. Normal warranty then was 1 year. (now it's 3 years).

In Holland you sign a paper giving away warranty when PPP is installed.

Subaru NL now does absolutely nothing due to decat and induction kit. There theory is that do too the improved breathing the engine runs leaner and piston melt. This together with the fact that an induction kit breaks the MAF-sensor. They say they don't make any issue about the PPP.

I think it's complete bull**** but I have to go to court if I want something more (and I do go to court with it !)


Mark.

b5m

Here in South Africa they are very strict about any mods. Even a backbox will affect your warranty. If your engine blows or even your gearbox has problems(supposedly due to the extra power) you wont be covered. But you can go for the PPP which is 1700UKP and you need 95RON and we only get 93RON max

I really do not think a different backbox will cause your engine to blow. How is the flow of your engine affected with a clean/dirty air-filter, different fuel etc etc. There are so many variables.

This is the official stance. I suppose if you have bought 5 STis they might help you out

AliWrx

Just spoke to my dealer regarding this issue as im due to have a decat mid section and SS back box done next week at TSL. They say that as long as i took the car back to them for the warranty work they wouldn't have a problem with it. I guess it depends on the dealer.....
Ali

ScoobySnack

Had my downpipe fitted at a Subaru dealer and he provided the reciept and kept my warranty intact..... . Other dealer I use has also offered to do any work on the car for me.

IMHO , Subaru do want to clamp down on warranty claims as it costs them money, and some people do abuse the system. However if your car has a fault not caused by any modification then tell the dealer he should fix it within the warranty. If he doesn't try another and take your business else where.

J

AliWrx

Daft question but what does IMHO stand for?

TiggerWRX

In My Humble Opinion....

scoobypig

And what does LOL mean?

mattski2

interesting stuff... how come Listers supplied my RB5 decatted anyway then? It wasn't brand new but they sold the car _with_ warranty, surely it could be a case of 'not fitting the sales description' or something if push came to shove as they damn well knew about the decat?

AliWrx

It is Listers that i use as well and they did the decat on my P1, and have assured me that decatting my WRX will not effect the warranty. They seem to be ok with sensible mods

NBW

LOL = laughed out loud

PING

Scoobypig

Laughed out loud!

Steve

[Edited by PING - 3/15/2002 11:41:03 AM]

Mickle

What's to stop you taking the decat exhaust off every 6 months so that the dealers don't see what you've done?

Is that Lister's in Worcester that don't mind de-cat's? I might have to give them a call. I've contacted my local dealer and they won't honour a warranty with any non-subaru standard parts.

wilf

Just spoke to my dealer this morning.

Same chap who told me that decatting wouldnt affect my warranty 2 weeks ago now said the whole lot would be invalidated.

Not best pleased. Does anyone konw the official IM line?

NBW

I'll fax IM next week for clarification

My reading of the situation is this:

1. IM and their dealers are loosing sales to parallel imports and are likely to have to drop UK prices by 10-15% under pressure from the EC.

2. Under direction from IM, Subaru dealers are turning away many owners of imports, and so don't get the revenue from servicing or profit margin on parts. This in turn means the dealers will be putting pressure on IM to help their margin in other ways.

3. New EC laws will mean IM can't force you to use their dealers for warranty work, again another threat to dealers' revenues.

4. Many current owners will not replace their current car with another Impreza because of security & insurance worries.

5. Put 1 to 4 together and you can see with revenues threatened you would want to reduce your costs - and an easy way is to clamp down on paying for warranty work, and modded cars are an easy target.

IM are not the only car manufacturers experiencing these difficulties, the difference is that Subaru's customer base has a higher than normal proportion of 'enthusiast' owners, e.g. owners who want to modify their car to their own personal preferences. If they alienate this customer base, then their situation will get worse, not better, because those that remain loyal to the marque will import their cars, and have them modded/serviced/fixed by specialist dealers who will charge less and provide a better service.

Mitsubishi have recognised this and have taken a different approach - inviting owners of imports to their dealers with open arms. Not sure how they approach warranty though.

Cheers
Tim



[Edited by NBW - 3/16/2002 11:39:43 AM]

[Edited by NBW - 3/16/2002 11:41:58 AM]

NBW

According to a thread in general, IM's sales are down 45% compared to this time last year....

pslewis

Well, if I was running IM I certainly wouldnt honour any car with modifications to it on a related warranty claim.

ie, if the cat has been removed NO engine, drivetrain, or related issues should be addressed.

The morale of the story is, and always has been, if you want to mod a car, a. buy one out of warranty b.buy a dodgy 'Grey' import or c. a cheap 'Eurozone' DONT go and buy a lovely UK model !!

WHY, oh WHY modify these cars anyway? The magazines say it all, "Very reliable cars and any problems stem from owners modifying" enough said.

Pete

NBW

I take your point, and that would normally be the case with a warranty, but the fact is IM have worded the warranty in a way that, legally, indicates modified cars will be repaired under warranty, as long as the fault is not caused by fitment of the modified item.

Many have modded their cars on the basis of the LEGAL interpretation of the warranty wording, and the spirit in which this has been applied through the dealer network.

If I have an engine problem now, I will argue my case, but if IM refuse to do something like replacing a washer pump because I have changed the exhaust, they are going to find themselves in correspondance with my solicitors, as well as getting some free publicity.

If IM have cocked up their business, that's their problem, don't expect me to help them out by paying for legitimate warranty repairs.

Watch this space.

Tim

NBW

Text of fax sent to IM:

'CLARIFICATION REQUIRED ON WARRANTY RULES

I understand that many UK Subaru dealers appear to have revised their warranty policy regarding repairs to modified cars.

Previously, warranty repairs would be authorised on vehicles with
modifications, as long as the modified part was not responsible for the failure.

For example, a vehicle with an aftermarket exhaust system would have an electrical fault rectified under warranty without any difficulty.

Now, as I understand it, certain Subaru dealers are refusing to conduct ANY warranty work on vehicles with modifications, and instead owners of modified vehicles are being asked to pay for all repairs.

This apparent change conflicts with the statement printed in the Service & Warranty booklet supplied with my vehicle from new (part no. SACC4151). I would be grateful, therefore, if you could clarify, in writing, Subaru UK's policy regarding repairs to modified vehicles during the warranty period.'

X SOOOBY

i have a sti7 on order and when i brought it back from a test drive told the salesman that it didnt have the same performance as my decatted my00 and his responce was why dont you get one fitted and when i said about the warranty issue he said we wont know that it is fitted will we
so it`s in the dealers intrest not to say anything as they do get paid for this work