scoobycrazy

I'm thinking of getting a 2.2 conversion done,i know i can get a crankshaft(longer stroke steel one).Thing is can i overbore it as well and get 2.4 conversion or thats too much for the engine?? obviously i ll just rods thicker gaskets etc etc

Thanks

Adam M

not good to bore out engine can be done, but not entirely necessary, a good stroker should see you to over 400 with a big turbo and some strong internals.

If you want, you could start with a 2.2 block from an legacy or something. If really lucky you could source a 22B block which is closed deck.

Nothing then stops you from fitting the same stroked crank into a 2.2, but this will give you 2.35 not 2.4. You can get 2.4 but that would need slightly longer stroke than those normally available.

You would certainly need a fully mapple ecu such as the def-con 3 pro pro pro.

scoobycrazy

one more question please..I have an sti v rollerbearing turbocharg at the moment.Do you think will be adequate to flow enough after the conversion?..Do you know the boost limits of my turbo(reliable).Finally do you know what gearbox will be able to take enough abuse on that kind of power?

Thanks a lot for the valuable advice..Do you have any tuner suggestions? also how much you reckon going to cost me...

Thanks again in advance

scoobycrazy

Pleeaaase..

Adam M

lol
I know who you are but I can answer your questions with more info.

the standard sti 5 turbo is a vf29, it is not big enough to flow the kind of power you are talking about.

A turbo dynamics md195 which has a p20 exhaust housing a large diamtere garrett wheel, would be fine at around 400bhp.

Your gearox and clutch will not take it, you will need an uprated gearset such as a straight cut dog box, available from places such as mrt.

You can buy their products from scoobymania or townend garage.

As to building the engine for you. I dont have much experience of local engine tuners as I have never needed one.

Depending on where you are in the country, have a lokoat what is on offer.

In parts alone you wont see much change from 5k plus.

engine block, rods, pistons, crank, injectors, ecu ,turbo,

not to mention heads. You would better having your heads converted to underbucket shims and haviong the cams re profiled etc.

By the time you do this and and pay labour and vat, I reckon on close to 10k on top of the 10k you spent getting to 340bhp.

if you achieve this power properly you should be doing away with nitrux, since that is a cheats way out.

A wise bloke once posted on the american bbs a comment which stays with me.


"if in doubt, raise boost!"

scoobycrazy

lol,

Yep i agree.Anyway i don't want to bend my rods..I'm really into getting 400+.I think by your words i'll stick to the crank way of just getting the 2.2,as i have the forged pistons and i won't be needing a new block(save money).I'll definately do the heads.Will i notice difference by getting my current cams reprofiled(does it worth doing it? how much bhp do you reckon i can get from this?).My last question(sorry about so many questions),what do you think i can do to get rid of the lag.I've heard of antilag systems do they really worth it? are they damaging the engine at any way?

Much appreciated Adam..

Adam M

cant give you a bhp figure, not that easy.

your heads will limit you to 8000 rpm, if you have a stronger bottom end then it will survive higher rpm, uprated heads which themselves can take 8000 rpm will improve things and give you a higher top speed.

anti lag is not bad for engine, it can raise egts to too high a temp, so you would need to watch that, it also requires some decent mapping to get it set up right and I dont believe that can be done on an f con (not certain, dont quote me), sad to say you might have to consider a motec or a gems.

It is bad for the turbo as the shock to the blades is substantial and you will go through them.

You will need reprofiled cams as the bigger capacity engine requires more time to get the mixture in. You will also need larger injectors as you will need to provide more fuel.

400bhp should require greater than 550 injectors, you will need an uprated fuel pump such as an fse, and consider an uprated fuel pressure regulator.

this will mean idle will not be smooth and will be rich, unless you increase idle rpm. If not you risk bore wash and seizing a piston.

I do get tehfeeling after your launch onto scoobynet that you are actually testiong people on here and really dont give a damn what advice you get.

If this is the case, then please dont bother, I dont mind writing it because other people might want to know.

If yuo are genuinely willing to accept some advice, then please dont try to discredit my friends in future, the people you chose to argue with, all know what they are talking about, I learned from most of them!

Duck Fat

Ring Autosportif near Banbury/Oxford (near Cherwell Valley Services on the M40) if you haven't already. They do a complete conversion.

Guy there is Martyn Spurrel, top man.

Cheers
Mr.Fat

Adam M

agreed re auto sportif, but take your cheque book with you.

scoobycrazy

LoL yeah I think i'm going to need that..WOuld you please please have some telephone number of autosportif? I called 192 adn telephone wasn't listed..

Thanks a lot guys..

Gareth Allan

I dont know if it is worth the bother/time/crippling expense to go for a 2.2L until you have everything else in place, like big turbo, mapable ecus etc etc.

I remember Sam Elassar saying on here ages ago that the way he was doing it was doing all the 'easy' outside things first, then keep uping it, and if something goes wrong, look internal - this sounds about right, and is the way I will do it.

But it makes no sense to me for people to spend a forune on new pistons, rods, knife edged cranks etc and NOT go for a 2.2L. Surely the pros outway all the cons at that point? Are the new bits just as strong/upgraded as if you fitted 2L steel bits?

Gareth

Adam M

Tel +44 (0)1869 250555 Fax +44 (0)1869 250650

GavinP

http://www.autosportif.co.uk/

Gareth Allan

Autosportif

Unit 4 Murdock Road, Bicester, Oxon OX26 4PP

Tel +44 (0)1869 250555 Fax +44 (0)1869 250650


BTW, Adam, do you know anyone who can sell him an upgraded turbo?

Gareth

scoobycrazy

Thats a good point,but i got already front HKS intercooler,fully mappable ECU,forged pistons,ceramic clutch,electronic valve contr.etc etc etc.The only thing is left is all the internal bits(apart from pistons)+proper racing gearbox..To get a 2.2 crank i think for a steel one is £1800 included Vat.Thats gonna do my 2.2 engine conv,then i need some proper Rods(in order to get 1.6 bar).Then i'm not sure about Turbocharg..Adam suggests mine wont cope(Most likely ),I shall see how is flowing when everything else is done..).Then i will need thicker head gaskets,do the heads is £400*2.Then rods are 180 each + VAT.I think is about 5000 with labour + my heads hmmmm £6000.Hmmm lots of money but then i think I will have one very fine fast scoob 400+ I reckon..I will be super happy with 410-420.I forgot ****e i will need a racing gearbox.Add another 2K = £8.But then scoobs are lighter than Mitsu and skylines i think that will be very fast..

scoobycrazy

Cheers Guys..

Adam M

with over 400lbft and 400bhp, it would be incredibly fast.

a crank is much less than 1800+ vat. You can have a billet crank for significantly less than that.

Gareth is right in that it is not worth doing internals without doing a 2.2, if you are replacing the crank.

There is no need for thicker head gaskets. These only depend on what compression ratio you are looking for.

I will be going thinner on mine eventually.

Rods also need not cost as much as you are talking about.

i would also recommend (and I know this will hurt) a better ecu for the kind of performance you are talking about.

If I am right (which i am often not) the f con is pitched about the level of the link/gems, i would have thought to properly extract the potential from engine like the one you are talking about you would be far better off with a gems or a motec. The resolution of the map is very high, so you can get fine control.

it is not cheap, but I would not want a mega engine, and not want to control it with the best I could afford.

scoobycrazy

Adam,

You are right about getting a motec one with this kind of power.F-Con can handle the power but a motec would be even better but i have to consider my bank account.I will be going bankrupt after spending another 2K on a motec one.I think F-CON will be just about ok(i hope so).I will be very interested to know where i can get cheaper parts like paying less than £1800(that was included VAT) If i can get much cheaper one - Billet is better than steel? what is Billet? Any suggestions where i can buy cheaper rods and crank?
Gareth(Thats why i want to get done the 2.2 once im opening the engine).Also do you think i can get cheaper than 2K for a gearbox?

Cheers Adam and rest..

Adam M

no re gearbox. they simply are not that cheap, you are looking at over 3.5 k for a full dog box and that is just the gears. You also need to pay labour to have it assembled.

you will need an uprated clutch again as few can handle over 400lbft.

There is no doubt that an F-con will work so long as it is well mapped. Hell a unichip could probably do it, but I wouldnt want to try it.

Billet is steel, but it is one large block that is machined down to the shape you want. A standard subaru crank is a very hefty bit of kit anyway and since it isnt very long due to boxer layout, it can handle a lot of torque.

To be honest, calling autosportif and telling them what you already have will help you immensely. They are very experienced in stroker kits. If you tell them you want 400bhp, they will aim for it and probably deliver. They can also give you a complete price in advance and a break down.

They also have engine dyno facilities which you can benefit from, but as I said they arent cheap.

If you want cheaper uprated internals, try ggr, rcdevelopments etc.

infact rc developments have a 400bhp stage for the impreza which is only 5k, and you have half the stuff already. Give them a call.

scoobycrazy

I called autosportif,they seem like very serious company but as you said for the whole kit includes Motec,turbocharg,head work,pistons(got them though),steel crank,rods,dyno and 1.5 boost...8500K not that bad for turbocharger and Motec but then that leaves me with no gearbox option..I've heard the gear kit from quaive is 2K.

scoobycrazy

I ll call RC developments see what they say..

scoobycrazy

I forgot to tell you,they said you will have easy over 400!!.My dream-I cant wait to do it..

CraigH

Not trying to start another session here...

As you are obviously happy with the work TDI/your mechanice mate at TDI did, why not speak to them?

They do a 2.2 kit for Scoobs don't they? Think it was about £2.5k for the parts - maybe a little more.

Duck Fat

Quaife.

Adam M

quaife indeed.

I was also surprised that you have given up on TDI so quickly, have they done you wrong?

I bloody hope so at 10k for an extra 100bhp.

that same 10k could have got you an extra 200 if you had been properly advised in the first place.

scoobycrazy

Yeah could be.But i didnt know that im going to go mad..I didnt aim for 400+.Its a different story,its me being mad about power..I called RC Developments,I think they are pretty good,very cheap looks like..I'll see what figures they come up to..Autospor* are as expensive as tdi guys.They are good though as well..Many people though don't know what they want in the beggining when they start building a car(like me).I thought 340+ will be enough for me but its not..Doesnt matter because I can sell some of my things.I got most of what i need anyway(intercooler,EVC,exhaust,pistons etc etc)I have to see what RC developments offers.I'll let you know,anyway thanks for the help Adam.

Adam M

would you believe that rc developments recommend the f con pro pro pro. No joke, they do. If you have one of those and a front mount already you will be most of the way there.
A TD MD195 hybrid will do you, along with uprated internals. Not sure they will recommend a stroker though.

scoobycrazy

F-CON is good enough for 360-370 maybe even 400 will do fuelling etc but Motech and there is another one ps-8 or something? Thats the business does for 1350incl vat antilag-traction control and so much more!..I ll probably get one of them

scoobycrazy

Hmmm i'll see what they say.Lets see what they recommend i mean i want to see from them dyno figs when they are done.I'll tell them to stick a 2.2 crank-worth doing it i reckon..They recommend F-CON? I shall let u know about 7's what they suggest.I think i ll be in the region of 5k or so..

scoobycrazy

I also apologise for all the aggression which has been caused over the last weekend.I really want to be friends with everybody if some people can let go hard feelings.I already have about all of you..

At the end of the day is all about having fun