stewfo

iTrader: (2)

Hi all
I have a question about a totally standard MY00 Uk, is it worth getting a remap with no mods done to the car. I live in the Aberdeen area so have a few options on where to get it remappped. Would i notice any noticable gains with the standard exhaust or am i better of getting a custom one fitted first.

Cheers.

dannytwo

iTrader: (5)

mate
you would be wasting your money if you got a re-map especially because its a uk car.
you would be best doing some sensible mods first,thats if you want to

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

Really need to get rid of centre section and backbox (350 pounds) as a minimum, along with a panel filter (30 pounds) will see you playing with about 230 bhp. If you can stretch to it, go full decat (removes all CATS and makes an AWESOME NOISE) to get the best from a remap. Full decat wil cost about 550 pounds and will get you about 240 bhp but, more importantly, a much better torque curve and a better-driving car.

You will need to invest in a fuel pump (90 pounds) as well prior to a remap as the OE one is'nt up to the task once you start uprating the car. Some say that the 1:1 regulator needs done as well but unless you want over 265bhp (yours has 215 as standard!) then the OE Reg will suffice.

I'm more than capable of "hooking you up" with a nice system or full decat at a cracking price. Ask around on here and SIDC, they'll give you honest info!

If you need more advice, just stop the Sonic Blue STi6 RA with white wheels whizzing round town. I'm always up for a blether!

Russell, BHP Developments

ps - rule one. If you haven't got one yet, GET A BOOST GAUGE!!!!!!!!

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

I've heard some differing points of view on this. Firstly remapping even a standard car will give more power, as boost will be increased, mixture leaned etc... Would have guessed over 240bhp for just a remap with no other mods is possible if you wanted the car to appear totally standard.

Also been told that the standard fuel pump will easily flow enough juice. Apparently uprated only required when remapping STI's.

Don't mean to disagree with the above comments, just what I've read on here elsewhere.

stewfo

iTrader: (2)

Cheers for the advice guys. Am i right in thinking that if i get a full decat i may have problems when the good old MOT is required. I am not looking for more than 240-250 bhp, but would like the car to be smother as it feels abit lumpy at the moment. Will see what she feels like after a required service as this is due now. Will give u a shout WUZ when i have decided on mods.

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

I agree that , in brand new form, the OE fuel pump will supply enough fuel for 260-ish. BUT, we are talking about using a pump that is 5 years old and asking it to supply up to 25% more fuel.

Is that worth the risk of DET and blowing up your engine for the cost of an uprated fuel pump? (90 pounds)

You can pass the MOT with just the Centre cat in, so long as it is HOT, HOT,

In relation to the lumpyness of the car, being a MY00 means that the MAF sensor or Lambda sensor might be on its way out. TRY the following:

With the car sitting at idle, pull out the Grey plug to the MAF sensor( Grey plug that is plugged into a black square on top of the tube going into the Airbox), if the car carries on running, the MAF is sh###ed!

Personally, check the Top of the MAF sensor where the Plug is attached. If there is a GREEN DOT there, it's one of the newer, tougher ones. If there is not a Green Dot on it, Play it safe and change it. If your at all worried about it, do to Gavin Wallace, tell him I sent you. Ask him to do a quick ECU diagnosis on the car (usually does them for nowt!) and he'll be able to tell you if the MAF or Lambda is SH###ed! I do have the stuff to do it myself but I am stuck out here in India until the end of the month!

Russell

john banks

Completely standard MY00 UK cars map quite nicely, and continue with a nice quiet exhaust note. Changing the downpipe whilst retaining the factory centre cat and backbox would be my choice. I wouldn't change the fuel pump until you get to over 300 BHP - ie turbo upgrade.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Agree with John Banks here

You will see a huge difference just remapping the standard car and you should definately go for it!

I have a 2004 WRX which is only remapped - and made a huge difference on the standard, very laggy and unresponsive car (I also have a 1999 sti5 which is modified a fair amount)

For some of the other comments:

1. On a 2000 UK with say Exhaust, filter and map why would you need a Boost gauge - Once I had done a fair bit then I added Boost gauge, primarily to aid Bob with the numerous remaps I've had done
2. Fuel pump AND regulator are more than adequate on a UK car with standard Turbo... and I dont know where you get 25% extra fuel from?
3. Lamda sensor can take one hell of a beating and will be fine
4. Maf should be fine if you've had the car standard.... Its when people put on crappy after market filters that vibrate a lot that the MAF has a habit of failing!

DIPSY

Hello stewfo i have my2000 uk with full hs now with tek2 exchange ecu .what a difference it makes to a standard car.I am going to awd in perth next thursday for Andy f to check the tek2 and maybe adjust it because of boost creep and spiking maybe a bit more power when andys finished with it.I bought the tek2 from falkland performance .kev

stewfo

iTrader: (2)

Thanks again guys

I am assuming that Gavin Wallace is from Wallace Performance (Bridge of Don).
Read some good reports about them on here. Wuz will try ur suggestions on the MAF.
Hey Dipsy how much was u for ur TEk2 (if u dont mind me asking) and has it made any difference to u r fuel consumption.
I think i will upgrade to hayward and scott exhaust sytem first or if anyone has a better suggestion for an exhaust please let me know.

DIPSY

Hello stewfo the tek2 cost me 587 including vat plus sidc discount.I didnt know the likes of wallace performance or andy f did the ecutek or i would of gone for the tek3 custom map .Because every car is different after decat exhaust and filters that why i am going to awd for andy f to check car and adjust it if the licence is there or go tek3 custom map .I get about 19 mpg that giving it a bit of stick .That down to a quarter of tank .

stewfo

iTrader: (2)

hey dipsy thats not far of what i am getting at the moment, so u r probably getting better performance for the same fuel consumption as myself. I was told as soon as i bought my sub to get a tek3 remap. Think i am starting the get the mod itch but still resisting as i will end up spending all the wifes money (HAHA).
Let me know how u get on with Andy.F as i have read excellent comments about him.

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

1 - Boost gauge will tell you if your overboosting, running in limp mode, etc. SOME owners on here are not as up to speed with the cars feel as others are so it would be a good addition to have. Bob has said before now that it would be the first thing he gets people to fit and it was not just for his benefit!

2. if you run 25% more boost, surely you need 25% more fuelling to get the safe AFR on BOOST (11.3-11.5:1)? I agree that the OE reg will cope with a power increase but WHY PUSH A 5 YEAR OLD PUMP WHEN A NEW ONE CAN BE HAD FOR 90 POUNDS. If it struggles 6 months after the map and the car rus lean and (possibly) goes POP, are you going to help pay for the rebuild? I just feel it would be better being safe than sorry, after all if your happy to pay 600+ for a remap, what's an extra 90 pounds?

3 - agree but its 5 years old. If its on its way out get a universal replacement for 60. Change it IF IT NEEDS IT (that why I said see Gav and get the Laptop on the car to see, or get a wideband on it for closed loop comparison with Subaru OE Lambda)

4 - I KNOW FOR A FACT that 20+ cars on P1WOC have had their MAF sensors die on them and their cars were standard, how many non-P1WOC members have had theirs go?. Many others owners on here now class MAF's as a "comsumable". Again WHY TAKE THE RISK! IF IT NEEDS CHANGED, CHANGE IT!

Hell, some people say that 95 unleaded is fine for tuned STi's.........would you agree?

As far as John Banks is concerned, I accept his word wholheartedly. He's mapped loads of Tek-equipped cars and if he says its ok then I bow down to superior knowledge. I have met the man and chatted with him at Knockhill and he is a fountain of knowledge.

I'm only saying that the MAJORITY of issues with MY00 cars have been LAMBDA, FUEL PUMP or MAF related, so check them with Delta Dash and see if they need replaced. If they do, replace them, if they don't leave them.

Russell (not wanting to tread on toes here, Fangoria, sorry if it sounds like I am M8)

stewfo

iTrader: (2)

Cheers wuz

As the car is due its service will the MAF and Lambda be checked by T&C or am i best giving Gavin Wallace a phone after the service for a check anyway.

Cheers

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

T&C will check it for you if you ask but there may be a "service charge". Get Gavin to do it as the Select Monitor that Subaru use will only pick up a dead MAF not a failing one! although the Lambda Voltage that will show from the Lambda probe WILL be picke dup by the select Monitor

Russell

john banks

Very sensible to be thorough. MAF problems are common and the lambda sensor has a limited life. It wouldn't do harm to change the MAF and possibly the lambda at 5 years old since the ECU is not good at reporting their faults.

The fuel pump is more controversial though. If you uprate it then it can overfuel at low injector duty cycles with the standard regulator because the return capacity of the regulator can be insufficient. Usually the closed loop would sort it if the lambda sensor is working. If you do change the reg I think you introduce more unreliability, with FSE or with aftermarket fuel plumbing. You could spend a fortune on Aeroquip hoses and an SX regulator to fix something that isn't a problem though. My present fuel setup is more vulnerable to leaks and potential fire than the original setup.

I've had the pleasure of driving a 227000 mile Legacy on its original everything except routine service or friction items and a replacement gearbox.

A 25% increase in boost on a MY00 which runs about 10 PSI at peak power, would only give you 100*(((1.25*10)+14.5)/(10+14.5) - 1) = 10% increase in fuel requirement (and roughly power) even if the VE is maintained from that increase in top end boost. Improving the breathing will help maintain this, but 10% is a typical gain from mapping alone, with a similar improvement from breathing, by removing cats you can also run leaner and reduce the requirement for extra fuel. Some of the improvement with breathing comes from a better use of the air and fuel that the engine gets so you can make a more favourable brake specific fuel consumption.

Generally I find a MY99/00 is fine with a VF24/28/34/35 sized turbo on a TMIC on the standard regulator, pump and injectors to about 320 BHP with an exhaust. TD05, VF23 and VF22 and bigger especially with FMICs and headers I feel need fuel system improvements, but a FMIC/headers/TD05 340 BHP setup can usually run OK on original 440cc injectors with a reg and pump.

Different ways to skin a cat. In the pursuit of reliability it is easy to be thought of as overcharging

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

OOPS! - thought my fuelling figures might be out a little!

John, sounds about right actually, I've just come up with similar numbers as well so it looks like I was wrong on the fuel front. Hey, I'm man enough to accept that

Stil think that the old fuel pump should be changed though. Would be better going with the Walbro 190lph rather than the 225lph then?

Russell (wrong one one point and happy to admit it....no-one's perfect!)

john banks

Never tested the 190 lph.

Need to include atmopsheric pressure in the airflow estimates when thinking about boost.

I wish going from 1 bar to 1.5 bar raised power from 400 to 600 BHP, rather than more like 400 to 500 BHP, and needing more like 2.0 bar for 600 BHP. So much more stress for so little gain unfortunately. I keep trying to remind myself of this, seeing it peak at 1.7 bar and it feels quick compared with 1.5 bar, but then I tell myself it is 8% improvement in torque at best and so much more risk of damage on Optimax.

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

I know what you mean...............power curve on my RA runs with an exponential "cost" curve

Russell

stewfo

iTrader: (2)

You are starting to confuse me now guys, but i will pay a visit to wallace performance after the service to check out MAF and Lambda.

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

Sounds like a good idea!

Let me know the outcome would you. See what he recommends!

Russell

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Wuz

No problems - I think I invite the critcism by being fairly brutal with my opinions - I dont go into techy details like John as I dont have the same level of experience but with the amount of Turbo's and other parts and issues that I've had over the years then I've seen my fair share of problems and now know what the solutions are!!

My Lamda is bashed to death - need to ask Bob if after many years of octane abuse it really now could do with changing 6 years down the line!

Maf - yeah cant harm I guess - personally dont use on my sti5 my99 - as I use a link

The extra boost as John states does require some more fuel but is not propertional to the boost increase

John
Yeah I wish that I could get 50% more power by just increasing the boost by that - not going to push the car now too far (if I keep my sti5) given that last time I ran high boost numbers the cylinder heads gave up!

WUZ

iTrader: (14)

Fangoria - Cool M8 - That's what this board is all about. It was good to get your input as well.

Russell

DIPSY

Had the my2000 uk Turbo hs decat jr panel .Remaped by Andy f what a difference over that tek2 exchange ecu i got from falkland there ecutek2 are done by wallace performance what Andy said the map was more aggresive more a tek3.So go and see Andy forrest for a remap ie apexi or ecutek but its up to you were you go and who does the best job me if had anything else done to car ie turbo etc i would go to Andy forest for the remap for this.

WallacePerformance

There is nothing better than a completely customised re-map, especially calibrated and monitored in a controlled environment ie a rolling road. Our Tek2 re-maps that we have done for many trade and retail customers are aggressive but work very well and give very good figures safely. We go even more aggressive on the tek3's as we can safely monitor boost pressure, ignition timing for det and fueling values.

Gavin Wallace

DIPSY

Wallace Performance regards the tek2 i had in my car the car did not seem any more powerful to me it was a waste of my money .When Andy f did the remap theres a very big difference with the way the car goes it makes the tek2 exchange ecu i got from falkland that was maped by wallace performance feel a waste of money .I should of went to Andy in the first place so who the one to go for a remap in Scotland go and see Andy Forrest for sure hes the man.You say your tek2 works very well from my point i had hell of alot of problems with it .But after Andy f tek3 my car it makes your tek2 feel very very under powered.If your tek2 runs bad i definatly would not have Tek3 from you lot