Electronic Boost Control Vs Remap Vs MBC
10 March 2005, 08:42 AM
#1
Electronic Boost Control Vs Remap Vs MBC
Thinking of fitting a VF28 to my TEK'd and TD04 Equipped MY00, but am having concerns about spool up (after reading other threads on the subject).
My first plan is to fit the VF28 and control the boost with an MBC limited to 1.0BAR (Currently ruuning 1.2BAR+ on TD04).
What will give the best spool up rate... a good old MBC, and Apexi Boost controller or a full remap.
I don't really want to splash out on the Apexi or Remap if A) An MBC can do it just as well, and B) if I'm still gonna be disappointed with the spool up.
I do know that the extra urge above 5,000rpm would be nice due to driving a VF30 equipped MY99 UK car last week. But the spool on this was horrendously slow (TSL mapped, apparently). Much like the 01 JDM STi I drove, which I think also has a VF30.
My first plan is to fit the VF28 and control the boost with an MBC limited to 1.0BAR (Currently ruuning 1.2BAR+ on TD04).
What will give the best spool up rate... a good old MBC, and Apexi Boost controller or a full remap.
I don't really want to splash out on the Apexi or Remap if A) An MBC can do it just as well, and B) if I'm still gonna be disappointed with the spool up.
I do know that the extra urge above 5,000rpm would be nice due to driving a VF30 equipped MY99 UK car last week. But the spool on this was horrendously slow (TSL mapped, apparently). Much like the 01 JDM STi I drove, which I think also has a VF30.
Last edited by Scott.T; 10 March 2005 at 08:45 AM.
10 March 2005, 12:15 PM
#2
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Hi Scott
My vf34 (similar roller bearing design and P18 exhaust housing, but with slightly bigger compressor and housing) will produce 1 bar in 5th at 2800rpm using a Dawes MBC with 0.5mm bleed hole. In the lower gears spool-up is roughly 4-500rpm later than the td04 with Dawes.
I'm sure you've already got this covered but remember the vf28 will hold 1bar to the limiter and will flow more air than the td04 at 1bar at any given rpm due to the more efficient compressor and less restrictive exhaust housing/turbine. Make sure you've got the fuel to cope.
Simon
My vf34 (similar roller bearing design and P18 exhaust housing, but with slightly bigger compressor and housing) will produce 1 bar in 5th at 2800rpm using a Dawes MBC with 0.5mm bleed hole. In the lower gears spool-up is roughly 4-500rpm later than the td04 with Dawes.
I'm sure you've already got this covered but remember the vf28 will hold 1bar to the limiter and will flow more air than the td04 at 1bar at any given rpm due to the more efficient compressor and less restrictive exhaust housing/turbine. Make sure you've got the fuel to cope.
Simon
10 March 2005, 01:35 PM
#3
Don't worry things are being monitored, besides I'm hitting 1.3bar and holding 1.1bar on the TD04 with noi KL activity and 900mV AFR.
So hopefully 1 bar on the VF28 will be fine to tart with.....
How are you controlling the fuel/ignition on yours ?
I could get my TEK remapped, but I want to experience the spool diferences first.
So hopefully 1 bar on the VF28 will be fine to tart with.....
How are you controlling the fuel/ignition on yours ?
I could get my TEK remapped, but I want to experience the spool diferences first.
10 March 2005, 01:46 PM
#4
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Scott.T
I have a HKS EVC5 for sale if you want.
As new all hoses and full fitting instructions and can be seen working if you want.
£300.00
http://www.dpmotorsport.com/parts/hks/evc5.htm
I have a HKS EVC5 for sale if you want.
As new all hoses and full fitting instructions and can be seen working if you want.
£300.00
http://www.dpmotorsport.com/parts/hks/evc5.htm
10 March 2005, 02:28 PM
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Scott
I'm using an unmapped ae802 ecu with walbro pump, FSE reg (3.5bar atmospheric), 1ml/l NF and 1 degree of retard across the map using deltadash. With this setup I get 1bar at 3000rpm in 4th, 1.4bar at 3400rpm held to around 5500rpm then it tapers to 1.2bar at 7000rpm. AFRs are 11.2-11.5:1 with WB monitoring and a quiet KL.
What you'll be able to run depends on how the tek'd ecu was mapped and fuelled. I see the danger being running too much advance beyond 5800rpm when the ecu stops listening to the knock sensor, and where it may be difficult to interpret your KL, depending on the level of background noise. I was quite suprised to find that the standard ae802 fuelling can cope easily with the boost I run, with a bit of an increase in fuel pressure. My IDCs peak at 93% at 6700rpm, compared to 83% with the maxed out td04.
Does your td04 hold 1.1bar to 7000rpm? The best I could get from mine was 1bar at 6200rpm then 0.8bar at 7000rpm. Do you have an aftermarket inlet pipe? I have found that contrary to what I would have expected, I have to run pretty much equivalent boost with the vf34 in the midrange compared to the td04 to get similar road dyno figures. I was expecting less boost would give more torque due to the bigger less restrictive turbo, although I suppose a remap would be necessary to reap the full rewards (roll-on a week today
)
Did you end up getting deltadash?
Cheers
Simon
I'm using an unmapped ae802 ecu with walbro pump, FSE reg (3.5bar atmospheric), 1ml/l NF and 1 degree of retard across the map using deltadash. With this setup I get 1bar at 3000rpm in 4th, 1.4bar at 3400rpm held to around 5500rpm then it tapers to 1.2bar at 7000rpm. AFRs are 11.2-11.5:1 with WB monitoring and a quiet KL.
What you'll be able to run depends on how the tek'd ecu was mapped and fuelled. I see the danger being running too much advance beyond 5800rpm when the ecu stops listening to the knock sensor, and where it may be difficult to interpret your KL, depending on the level of background noise. I was quite suprised to find that the standard ae802 fuelling can cope easily with the boost I run, with a bit of an increase in fuel pressure. My IDCs peak at 93% at 6700rpm, compared to 83% with the maxed out td04.
Does your td04 hold 1.1bar to 7000rpm? The best I could get from mine was 1bar at 6200rpm then 0.8bar at 7000rpm. Do you have an aftermarket inlet pipe? I have found that contrary to what I would have expected, I have to run pretty much equivalent boost with the vf34 in the midrange compared to the td04 to get similar road dyno figures. I was expecting less boost would give more torque due to the bigger less restrictive turbo, although I suppose a remap would be necessary to reap the full rewards (roll-on a week today
)Did you end up getting deltadash?
Cheers
Simon
10 March 2005, 05:57 PM
#6
At present boost drops to about 1 bar above 6,000rpm. I've never studied it that hard though as rarley take it to the redline in the taller gears.
Knocklink at present is nice and quiet with only the 1st LED showing signs of activity. It can be provoked into giving more activity but only by looning about coming on and off the gas at mid/high rpm. But at least it tells me it's working.
No havn't got Deltadash, but on the lookout for a 2nd hand copy with so spare licenses.
Knocklink at present is nice and quiet with only the 1st LED showing signs of activity. It can be provoked into giving more activity but only by looning about coming on and off the gas at mid/high rpm. But at least it tells me it's working.
No havn't got Deltadash, but on the lookout for a 2nd hand copy with so spare licenses.
12 March 2005, 09:36 PM
#7
Si,
Had a play with the MBC today with the TD04 fitted, just to see what would happen if it heldl boost a little longer.
Had it peaking at 1.4BAR then holding 1.3BAR, I'm not sure what revs it was holding the boost too but it was quite high.
I was more interested in keeping an eye n the Knocklink and AFR.
The good news was that there was no knock. So hopefully this means that if it does'nt Knock at 1.3/1.4 bar on an inefficient and probably overheating TD04. Then it should be OK running 1.2BAR with the VF28.
I was so suprised with the lack of knock that I checked the KL was fully functioning when I got back. Which thankfully it was.......
The TEK ECU I have was origionally mapped at PE to run with an Induction kit, but it now uses an STi Panel Filter. Maybe the load scaling for this has worked in my favour....
Had a play with the MBC today with the TD04 fitted, just to see what would happen if it heldl boost a little longer.
Had it peaking at 1.4BAR then holding 1.3BAR, I'm not sure what revs it was holding the boost too but it was quite high.
I was more interested in keeping an eye n the Knocklink and AFR.
The good news was that there was no knock. So hopefully this means that if it does'nt Knock at 1.3/1.4 bar on an inefficient and probably overheating TD04. Then it should be OK running 1.2BAR with the VF28.
I was so suprised with the lack of knock that I checked the KL was fully functioning when I got back. Which thankfully it was.......
The TEK ECU I have was origionally mapped at PE to run with an Induction kit, but it now uses an STi Panel Filter. Maybe the load scaling for this has worked in my favour
....
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13 March 2005, 06:29 PM
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Scott, that's good news. Going back to the standard induction should shift all the loads in the right direction. It'll be interesting to see how you get on. Keep us posted.
Cheers
Simon
Cheers
Simon
15 March 2005, 09:51 AM
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another good ebc thats now easily available is the hybrid, its a ebc and has built in FCD at the same time.
I think its about £140/50 all in.
speak to Harvey Smith for info but if the product is anything like his FMIC's then its going to be a good un
I think its about £140/50 all in.
speak to Harvey Smith for info but if the product is anything like his FMIC's then its going to be a good un
15 March 2005, 08:14 PM
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As some may already know I have just converted to a VF28 from a TD04 and it holds boost to redline no problem.
Currently running 1 bar for *normal use* then press the HKS evc v for a little 1.2 bar of fun
AP
Currently running 1 bar for *normal use* then press the HKS evc v for a little 1.2 bar of fun
AP
16 March 2005, 12:14 AM
#13
Originally Posted by Peanuts
another good ebc thats now easily available is the hybrid, its a ebc and has built in FCD at the same time.
I think its about £140/50 all in.
speak to Harvey Smith for info but if the product is anything like his FMIC's then its going to be a good un
I think its about £140/50 all in.
speak to Harvey Smith for info but if the product is anything like his FMIC's then its going to be a good un
I can vouch for these Hybrid boost controllers ... fuel cut lifter, fast acting 3 port boost solenoid included, 2 boost settings and even a scramble "overboost" if needed. Holds boost linear once grabbed, works very well I find!
16 March 2005, 10:02 AM
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speak to Harvey (Smith)
Harvey Smith [harveysmith1@btopenworld.com]
very approachable fellow, I always end up spending an hour chatting when it was a planned 2 minute call LOL
Harvey Smith [harveysmith1@btopenworld.com]
very approachable fellow, I always end up spending an hour chatting when it was a planned 2 minute call LOL
17 March 2005, 04:39 AM
#18
Thanks guys.
Neil/Vulnax is an expert on them.
Pictures here: www.geocities.com/harveysmith3000
Not only is it an EBC but it also acts as a fuel cut defender so it has to represent fantastic value for money and if used properly add safety to the engine set up.
Neil/Vulnax is an expert on them.
Pictures here: www.geocities.com/harveysmith3000
Not only is it an EBC but it also acts as a fuel cut defender so it has to represent fantastic value for money and if used properly add safety to the engine set up.
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