john banks

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/seda...rx/index7.html

Click the dyno plots that compare a "276" BHP Evo with a "300" BHP US STi.

Interesting to note that the Evo has a very competitive power band even though it doesn't have VVT like the Subaru engine, has nearly 0.5 litres less. It does have a twin scroll turbo though (but one which is capable of about 40 BHP more when tuned).

Given the Evo's red line is about 10% higher, I think overall I would say that the Evo has the better power band.

Shame the valves are a bit small and the stroke is already a bit long to allow further big capacity high revving tweakery on a budget?

I like my EJ257 but if the Evo 9 has a MIVEC engine it could be a stunner?

Pavlo

Now compare those graphs with the one of Bob's 2.0 JDM car with twinscroll turbo.

I don't think the US Sti is a fair test of the EJ engine. It's performance seems to be crippled in comparison to what can be done with the format.

I wonder how the Litchfield T25 would compare.

Paul

john banks

ISWYM, but Bob's and the T25 are modified. Both these standard examples are strangled by emissions and noise regs. Certainly the Evos can spool up a fair bit earlier as well with a boost controller, induction and exhaust.

I wish someone would make a turbo kit for the Legacy 3.0 Spec B. Maturity, build quality and a power band to die for, with good traction Some nice pistons, a TD04 on each side, where to put the intercoolers though? Always fancied an S4/RS4 until I drove an RS4 and found the chassis control very poor on roads I like. I want a six+ cylinder, strong, twin turbo motor in a package with refinement, handling, traction and a strong manual or auto gearbox, something that doesn't look too flash. Not too much choice, 2.0 feels restrictive. Hmmm.... a Supra with AWD would be nice. Skyline? - not exactly civilised or am I mistaken? Pork - too flash. VR-4 - little known about modding them.

Pavlo

Looking at the spoolup of the Impreza, it looks like it's slugged back. It has a 20ft-lb advantage before spoolup, then it looks like it's going to spool up nicely, when thuuuuuuur, it get's slowed down.

I don't believe the EVO is as contrained as the STI. FOr instance the std US evo has 256º duration cams vs 240 for the STI. Over here the EVOs prior to the 260 have always been tailored for more raw performance.

Bob's car is still road legal remember, and it had good results with just the remap and change to Janspeed exhaust.

The T25 uses a the EJ257 bottom end, and a mildly changed turbo (do they really do anything to it?) it's otherwise standard.

The spec C is generally every bit the match for RS range of EVOs.

Ultimately if you're comparing the US evo to the US Sti, then have a nice read. If you want to compare the 4g63 to the EJ2X engine, look elsewhere.

(your legacy comments taken on baord though)

Paul

JamesS

Skyline all the way, just try one!

Pavlo

skylines are too slow unless you can afford to spend silly money.

JamesS

330PS UK scooby to stage 1 R33 (320at hubs), anything over 60mph and the skyline is quicker. Couple that with MUCH sharper dynamics, a more `grown-up` feel.

Just feels a league above the scooby IMHO. I had scoobs for 8 years and loved them, but the skyline is a `better` car! - (based on driver envolvement)

john banks

1666kg for an R34, 2.57 litres, but 73.7mm stroke vs 88mm on the Evo, starts to make sense when you consider power bands? No wonder they rev when well setup. My understanding of engine geometry is rudimentary I have to admit.

Apart from expensive trial and error, how do you work out the best combination of bore and stroke vs strength and allowing it to rev, whilst also keeping the valvetrain design simple?

What would be required to get an EJ20 to run reliably at up to 9000 RPM with peak power at say 8500 RPM or is it just uneconomical?

What would be your ideal Scooby engine and why?

Discuss....

JamesS

The skyline with std turbo`s, even HKS GT-SS (circa 600PS), has very little lag and a low boost threshold. A very linear power delivery for a turbo engine. This reduces the (subjective) performance feel but not the actual performance!

john banks

Slightly off topic, but what is the ride quality like on a std R33 compared with your old Scooby, and what suspension was your Scooby on? (std UK, std STi or aftermarket?)

JamesS

Scooby was on Eibachs with std UK dampers, 17inch superL (40profile). Whiteline anti lift, rear ARB on full hard. Full set of braces.

R33 is a uk V-spec on 18inch 30profile tyres. Ride is worse on R33, ridges being particulary bad. Payback is in the bends! Ride at speeds over 50ish improves but still not as subtle as the Scoob (even with the springs etc), however body control is better and this was one aspect of the Scooby that always impressed.

The whole feel of the R33 is hewn from solid. The engineering integrity is simply superb.

At the time I looked at:

M5, Cerbera, VX220turbo, EspritV8, Maser3200, Exige and Supra! The M5 ran the skyline closest, but felt a little too old for me. Oh and you can`t easily upgrade an M5 to 600PS!!!!!!!!!!

carlos_hiraoka

John, start saving for a Porsche Turbo, have u driven one ? ..... AWD, and only uses 0.9bar of boost

Carlos H.

carlos_hiraoka

Also, I've yet to see an EVO that actually makes more power above 7500 rpm than at 7000rpm.
What about the new S203 .....

Carlos H.

john banks

S203 looks fab, but a bit pricey for a Jap car, not driven a Porsche Turbo. Too flash for my circumstances as my business partner used to have an normally aspirated 944 Turbo and that really upset the patients!

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Huh?

So a regular 944 then

john banks

LOL my brain fart. It was normally aspirated. Was going to say non-turbo but changed it to a normally aspirated and only removed the non-

Pavlo

Unless you can get shorter header primaries and inlet manifold legs, the EJ engine is not ideal for high RPM. I think I would be looking at over 750hp from a skyline to make it how I wanted.

Paul

JIM THEO

What about the new Skyline (when it will be available) with Cosworth engineered motor?
They say it "should" be more than 350ps in order to compete with supercars only not the usual EVO, Subaru etc
JIM

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

IIRC Jeff Wiltshires S4 was mildly tuned when I tried it at Bedford Autodrome. His tweeks made mincemeat of all the Scoobs and Porkers, very comfy and you could easily listen to radio4 as you wafted past everyone!

What a larf.
F

john banks

I disliked the RS4 I drove, grabby brakes, less steering feel than the Scooby, atrocious body control, sloppy gearchange and not that fast compared with a sorted Scooby, but the RS4 was standard. I wanted to like it, the RS246 guys say the suspension can be improved, but a suspension expert I know has tried and told me not to bother because the weight distribution, wheel spacing and track are flawed, but I didn't understand the technicalities of why. The car as a whole felt flawed to me, barely able to handle its stock power, but he talked me out of the notion I had that it could be sorted. Maybe that is unfair and they go better on a smooth track. I think it is the car I have driven that fell most short of expectation and hype, but some of it may be taste and preference.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

John, Jeff had Hi-Spec brakes (worked well on his car), remap +possible other tweeks and some chassis mods. It felt very good to me and I judge this against a lot of track cars. Perhaps the RS4 has been civilised too much (read compromised for fat bankers)?

F

C

Which equals lots of lag & lots of problems...

Over 600bhp in a Skyline, you need to be able to write 5 figure cheques without wincing, of which I have learnt the hard way...

They are not 'unbeatable' car that everyone makes them out to be at all IMO