trionic

Target: 400BHP & 400ftlb on a 2.0L. Emphasis on drivability.

Which housings are required for hot and cold sides with the 18G? Posts on here seem to indicate TD05 for cold and TD04 for hot. I don't yet know for sure which turbine I'll need for my target with the 18G.

Thanks

john banks

TD05H-20G is only just big enough for an honest 400 BHP on Optimax. That's all I'm expecting we'll get out our 2.5 Legacy project which will have intake, exhaust, manifold. I had to use methanol to get 434 BHP at Star with 20G.

Perhaps a TD06-18G or TD06H-18G might do 400 BHP as well but they will be laggier than a TD05H-20G I reckon from info from NASIOC.

harbering1

I have a deadbolt superzilla it is has 500 a 600 rpm more lag than my old td06/05 20 g.(on my 2.5)
And it has also more boostcreep

http://www.deadboltspeed.com/zilla.html

tweenierob

Td04 hot side is useless If you want 400bhp.

IIRC Moray has a TD05 18G and maybe the best person to comment on that front..

20G will be easier to build parts wise though i think..

Rob

Pavlo

I think the std td05 hotside is what limits the power on the 20g, not the compressor. I think the 18g will be a better match for the td05 turbine, and still produce very near the power of the 20g.

As for the superzilla, I have the original, and I had to re port the ex housing to get rid of creep, now it behaves fine.

Paul

AndrewC

I have been seriously considering the 18g for my TD05 for that very reason, I am more than happy with the torque/spool of the TD05 16G and believe the 18G will be very similar with a bit more topend.

I had been led to believe from some NASIOC members that the compressor could be squeezed into the 16G cover, but Andy tells me that the exducer is the same diameter as the 20G so it would take a lot of machining.

I don't see why the 20G would be easier to build parts wise than the 18G?

Andrew...

tweenierob

My mistake Andrew, i have seen lots of 20G 'kits' but not many 18G.
I assumed the 20G parts were more available, with no machining etc which i thought was nessecary on the 18G

Rob

RB5_245

I wanted an 18G when I changed my turbo, trouble is finding one apparently

the way the 16G and 20G spool up so similarly is it really worth the hassle trying to find the parts.

Dave

Pavlo

the 16g and 20 do not behave the same. In 5th gear there isn't much in it, but in lower gears when you are already over the boost threshold, the TD05 has the edge.

The biggest concern with the 20g is avoiding surge which can be problematic on 2.0 engines, and the better the whole package is from an inlet point of view, the worse the surge.

If you get a bigger turbine in the td05 housing, the 20g wheel becomes much more worthwhile too.

Paul

trionic

I'm still finding out which compressors and turbines are part of which turbo range (TD04, TD05 etc). I know that 15T fits into a TD04, not sure about 16G, but 18G = TD05 and 20G = TD06?

From the discussion, it seems that I'll need TD05 for both compressor and turbine covers?

AndrewC

As I said above the 18g is the same diameter as the 20g, it is offcially a TD06 compressor wheel and needs a lot of work to get into a TD05 compressor cover.

Comparing my results from Elvington on Sunday with Harvey's whilst he was quicker/faster there isn't a lot in it:

Harvey : 12.92 @ 107 1.??? 60ft, 160.9 top speed, WRX Wagon, TD05/20G, Ion headers/uppipe, Hybrid FMIC, 550s, Link ECU, AVCR EBC.
AndrewC: 13.17 @ 105 1.847 60ft, 158.8 top speed, UK 98 Wagon, TD05/16G @ 1.4bar, GruppeS Headers/H&S Uppipe, Hybrid FMIC, 550s, Link ECU, Hybrid EBC.

I think it's fair to say that both of us were driving with sympathy for our gearboxes and we were both on road tyres @ normal pressure with 3/4full tanks.

I am more than happy with the spoolup/lag on my 16g and will initially be looking else where to improve my package

Andrew...

PS. Harvey, if I got anything wrong please feel free to correct me.

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Paul

On your superzilla did you fit an external waste gate ?

Pavlo

nope, but I did report the wastegate and housing further

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

bttt

Anybody done this yet?

Bob

Delboy2

I have a spare TD05-16G which I am currently in the process of converting to an 18G

Cheers

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

What does it involve. Are you using the same compressor cover?

Bob

Delboy2

You can just about squeeze an 18G compressor wheel into the original cover (when machined) but there is another larger cover available which will fit straight onto TD05 core. The TD05 core will also require machining to take the larger od compressor wheel

Cheers

AndrewC

Photos?

Would be very interested in seeing what you are doing

Andy.F

I have a complete TD05-18G turbo on its way to me for evaluation Andrew, you are welcome to see pics of the insides

Andy

EMS

The TD05 18G is a very nice turbo overall, but not able to reach the same maximum power compared to the TD05 20G. Because of the lower rotational speed required by the 20G to have the same amount of air pumped, the backpressure of the hotside will be a bit lower. From my experience a TD05 18G fails about 15 - 20 HP to a TD05 20G. Spool up from low RPM is a bit better (about 150 - 200 RPM), but it spins noticably quicker after gear changes.

P.S. Absolutely no surge isues with the TD05 18G turbo's I have seen. I have had no surge isues either with the TD05 20G. (they all used standard intake hoses)

Mark.

carlos_hiraoka

Mark, what 18g's are u talking about ? ..... Deadbolt units ?

Carlos H.

EMS

Hi Carlos,

Yes, I am talking about the Deadbolt TD05 18G.

Mark.

Andy.F

Mark, did you use the larger 18G housing or the machined 16G ?

Andy

AndrewC

Andy,

That was going to be my question to you about the unit you will be evaluating?

Andrew...

Andy.F

I'm using the larger 18G housing, I'm not a fan of fitting oversize wheels in small housings.

Andy

Pavlo

Agreed.

Now it's all in the open, the 18g would be my weapon of choice for a 370-380hp car, which is what many people are getting with their 20gs because of other limitations (bollock size for instance).

I want to try some other things too, I am unsure of how a 18g with td06h turbine would work (probably well on a 2.5) and also a td05/06 with garret wheel from a medium GT size turbo. All will become clear I'm sure.

Paul

EMS

Same here! (however, to get to 380 HP without fuel additives will not be too easy!)

The 18G´s I´ve used had this housing:




Mark.

AndrewC

Mark,

As you have tuned TD05-16G / 18G / 20G can you say where the 18G falls between the 16G and 20G? I guess your comment about the 18G being about 15-20bhp short of the 20G answers this if we accept that a 16G is about 40-50bhp behind the 20G?

If you think 380bhp is too much for the 18G how much do you think you are getting from these and what do you think you could get from a 16G and 20G on the same cars.

Which do you think is the best option for a 2.0 fast road car?

Andrew...

EMS

The 18G is closer to the 20G than to the 16G in terms of power. Spool up is between those 2 and is quite good for a turbo with this capacity.

Perhaps you will see 380HP on your dyno´s as you are also seeing 400HP with a 20G overthere.

In terms of power, the 20G will only be superior compared to the 18G at high RPM. After about 5500 RPM you can have more power with the 20G and it can be about 15 - 20 HP more.

It´s very personal, but for me the 20G is not responsive enough. The 18G is a bit better. To make the choice a bit easier: If you can live with 370 - 380 HP go for the 18G, if you want more get the 20G. On the road I think the 18G has some advantage: both turbo´s are able to produce as much midrange torque (or more) as your standard internals can take (350+ LbFt), the 18G has a powerband which is more shifted to the lower revs and therefore better suited for driving on twisty roads.

I like both turbo´s, they have to be chosen to suit the goals you have in mind.

Mark.

AndrewC

Thanks Mark, very informative...