911

Simple question:

Intend to change my stock Sti V3 turbo to the above.
Really want an AndyF hybrid, but is the TD 05 far behind the demon Andy F unit?
To go with the turbo will be Apexi FC and 550cc/Walbro/Gruppe S headers, oh, and an 'Andy map'.

I use the car on the road, but I really want a responsive torquey engine as I seriously hill climb the car in competition.

Not that bothered about the ££££ side, just is the difference REAL?

911

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

don't think my car would have made 370ft/lbs on a TD05 at 1.35bar

911

But did it on an AndyF special?

for hill climbs a responsive no-lag engine is what I'm after.

911

chrome

ask andy :P

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

this turbo is huge compared with a normal td05 got one on mine and i was shocked by the size of it compared with the td05 plus im running less boost with the bigger turbo so its safer to the engine and with more power

XNWRX

No doubt Andy's TD05/06-20G outperforms the TD05 at any range. Better throttle response, less lag, better efficiency at high boost.

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

oh yes, have a look at my gragh-

http://www.geocities.com/jonnygav2000/419graph

AndrewC

A few interesting comments here: http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=187010

Andrew...

TopBanana

You've answered your own question! You need some serious antilag, especially with a big turbo like that one. But is it legal in hillclimbs?

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Is it easy to tell the difference between a standard TD05 and a 20g

Mark

RB5_245

Yes 05 16G looks like a normal turbo, 20G has a massive compressor housing.

911, The only issue might be boost in the midrange. If you're planning on running up to about 1.7bar the 20G can start to surge (mine did). Otherwise the only advantage the 16G imho has is cost.

Dave

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Has anybody got a picture of the 2 turbos next to each other to compare ?

Mark A

911

1.7 bar! Are you serious?!

thinking about an overall package here, not a rolling road one-off.
350 bhp and 320 ish lbft will do well, preferably on straight Optimax and low low lag.
Anti lag ok on the hills, BUT, they are all very niosey, and I know one Impreza that was very nearly stopped from running due to the crude banging (GEMS system)
I have a gearbox to think of too!

911

carlos_hiraoka

911, I have a very similar setup to what you are planning (although higher 9:1CR ), have been on a car with a deadbolt.com 20g turbo (very similar to one of Andy's turbos) and although it does make some boost at low rpms, I have found the stock FE TD05-16g to be slightly quicker to react to the throttle, and it would enough with a decent set of headers for your 350hp power goal.

Carlos H.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

before i put my td06 turbo on i ran a td05 and that ran 1.6/1.7 bar peak so the td06 turbo is gonna be better for you as you will only run 1.4 bar of boost

911

Sorry to be the thicko here, but:

My stock Sti v3 with a Blitz boost controller on straight Optimax ran 314 bhp @ 1.25 bar (Power Eng rollers). I now have it at 1.31 (where it crept to and stopped 12 months ago). This is with a full decat 3'' Magnex.
Today I hill climb on the same but with flowed stock headers and NF added (1/3 bottle for a tankfull).
With my planned set-up I would hope to get the turbo picking up at about 3500rpm or a bit sooner, and a fat flatish torque curve to about 6500 with minimum boost using a TD05AndyF unit/ApexiFC/Gruppe s etc, and 350 bhp should be 'easy' when mapped by Andy.

Sounds like I am hearing that the stock WRX TD05 will be the better 'allrounder' than the Andy F unit (obviously modified to front entry)..

If I later want to go further in bhp, then will the TD05 be the weak link? I'm thinking of 375/380bhp.
However, I am thinking I have my facts mixed up here; are there 3 levels of turbo:
1 Stock WRX TD05
2 TD05 16 G Hybrid
3 TD05 20G Hybrid.

Please remember I need a low lag torque bias engine for Hill climbing as Carlos well knows!
Porsches are much simpler!

Thanks for the interest from everyone.

911

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

td05 has more lag than the td05/06, the td05 will run more boost with less power so more harmfull to the engine, i thought my td05 ran out of power over 5000rpm where the td05/06 keeps going

carlos_hiraoka

911, keep it simple ..... the stock WRX TD05, just needs to be converted to front entry, and it IS a TD05 - 16g already, so no need to go hybrid. If you want more power you could always take it out and sent it to be converted to a 20g with a TD06 compressor cover (after all that is basically what a TD05 - 20g hyrbid is).

Sometimes you can actually see 1bar of boost at low rpms on your boost gauge, but it is not until a few hundrend rpms later that you really feel the engine pushing you .

Just to give u an idea, I went back to a TMIC just to get back the throttle reaction time, which I had lost when going to a FMIC, and now have increased the CR to aid to the reaction too. At least for me, it is all about throttle reaction time, and a nice torque delivery from 3500 - 6000 rpm. Keeping the rev limit sensible will also let you preserve your engine for quite a while.

At the end of the day, I feel that a setup similar to what Bob R. has on his STi ver. 9 will be ideal for hillclimbing. The twin scroll setup seems to be capable of >350hp easily, and has much more low end than any of the earlier or mentioned setups. This would involve in our case of: turbo (IHI VF37), oem twin scroll equal length headers, oil sump and downpipe. I have been very tempted to try it, will see how my new setup works and then will decide.

Carlos H.

911

You know exactly what kind of engine characteristics I need Carlos!
There are several TD05 (stock) for sale at the moment, but will wait till the hill climb season is over before getting serious....

Next issue is the bearing side.

The WRX stock TD05 has plain bearings, I'm not sure if my Sti v3 has ball bearings (?), but just how much influence do bearings have on spool-up? I guess a lot as the 'better' turbo's have them.

As to twin-scroll.....I'll keep it simple thanks.

911

carlos_hiraoka

A stock FE TD05 (which is in good condition) will spool much faster than any of the VF series turbos (IHI VF 22,23,24,28,29,30,34) except for the VF35 which spools extremely fast and is the turbo used on most GDB (bug eyed) group N rally cars.

Carlos H.

911

Thanks Carlos. If the VF35 is used so much, why are they not more popular or talked about on these pages? (or is this the twin scroll unit?)

911

TopBanana

Cos everyone seems to be into drag-racing on here!

carlos_hiraoka

911, the VF35 is mostly used by Group N rally cars, the ones that use the 32mm restrictor. In fact if you were to compete in the Group A class, I would recomend a VF34 which has a slightly bigger exhaust housing. (VF35 uses a P15 while the VF34 uses a P18 like most VF series turbos). But AFAIK there is no need to use a restrictor on hillclimbing, trackdays or dragracing ..... guess that is why people don't talk much about that little turbo.
BTW the twin scroll units are the IHI VF36 & VF37.

Carlos H.

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

cos VF turbos are unreliable and expensive IMHO.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Graham. Obviously the roller bearing turbos [ VF range ] have less friction than the white metal type. But I think the heat issue comes into play a bit more here, The white metal type are not as heat resistant as roller type and thus take a bit more abuse. That's the way I think it was explained to me by Owen Developments.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza

911

OK! Getting a good picture now. I will ask AndyF closer to end-of-season if his hybrid has a ball race bearing system.

Now seems to be:

stock FE TD05 (16G) with ball races will do me down to the ground for 350/375/ish bhp with quick spooling.

Thanks again to everyone, sorry to be an apprentice on these matters, keen to learn, (and spend ££££ according to my wife..)

911

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

911: Will call you when I get home to make arrangements about slicks.

Bob

911

OK Bob.
911

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Graham Selling or buying ?

Mark A

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Graham selling......SOLD

Bob