scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

As the title suggests is there any alternatives other than the TD05/06 hybrid turbo that is capable of big power.Im looking to change my VF 24 for something a lot more capable.Do any of the VF range of turbos reach 400 without too much difficulty.

Just wondered

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Yes probably quite a few depending on compressor wheel chosen

If your after more than a td05/06 will give you have you got uprated internals as the only reasonably reliable way for you to go is to run higher boost

You could get similar power to the td05/06 running at 1.4-1.45bar on a GT32 (Garrett compressor, p20 exhaust housing)

BUT this Turbo IS laggier, will cost you twice the price of a td05/06 (oh and dont forget you'll need a 76mm Turbo Inlet pipe as well) and the bigger the Turbo the more you may have to grind away some of the gearbox housing........

Harvey has had success with the Ion Turbo's as well..... these are very similar to the Turbo Dynamics Turbo's that I can see, although Harvey is the man witn the info here.....

To be fair though for 400bhp you are not going find a better Turbo than the 05/06........ and thats why they are popular (especially for cheap power on standard internals - Harvey has one himself on his 'second car'!!)

Steve

David_Wallis

md321 will do 400..

depends on what fuels power figures are quoted.. you could look at some of the forced performance turbos.. depends what you want though.. (just remember american bhp is different to uk having said that so are uk bhp's )

Adam M

not sure I agree with that last comment of steves.

for the money then yes probably, but the GT turbos from garrett are far more modern in core design and free spinning due to their roller bearings. Would think this would equate to better spool up.

I know its a 2.5 so isn't really comparable but mine with a massive gt 35/40 is producing 230lbft at 2500rpm and 487lbft at 3100, yet goes on to do 556lbft and 555bhp.

These are great figures of course but crucially for such a big turbo it still seems to produce the same torque if not more than my vf23 on my 2.0 sti 3 engine.

The only difference is that this is dyno bhp not road bhp, which means it will be coming in quicker than it would on the road. Even if you add 500rpm to the boost threshold the performance for a turbo of its size is still incredibly impressive.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Best start looking for a TD 05/6 then the internals arnt an issue since rebuild i'll stop at 400 anyway

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

md321 is quoted by TD at 450bhp isnt it - this is the Turbo that Bob has............... £££££...........

But you need to run at least 1.7-1.8bar to get this number on say Optimax and NF

Fuzz has this Turbo and has had between 365-385bhp at Powerstation at about 1.45bar on standard internals (365 on a hotter day - 385 in the winter)

To compare I got 383bhp at PS within a few days of Fuzz (when he got the 385bhp) at PS with the 05/06 - this was with Optimax and NF - since then Water Injection went on..........................

Of course these are just RR numbers.............(and vary wildly depending which one you go to and time of year, ands of course the fuel you use! etc) to re-emphasise these sort of Turbo's will achieve more power if you run the boost but as a result will be far more laggy on the road

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Sorry take ages to write something

Adam

Power for money at this level I cant see how you would find a better Turbo....... I guess thats what I was getting at....... To achieve this power there are loads of Turbo's out there... and Yes Garrett do produce some very good Turbo's - but at a price.........

If I only had standard internals then this would be the one I would stick with

However for me I dont hence I have a Garrett Turbo on now.....

Scooby tc

Problem for you is that once you have 400bhp you'll probably want more -which the td05/06 cant really give but with say the md321 you can start off on lower boost if you want and then increase the boost later on - but if you have uprated internals why bother - just get a bigger Turbo and run higher boost on it - but again YOU will have more lag............fact.........

David_Wallis

steve.. thats what nitrous is for.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh yes The laughing gas................

As you know I've been thinking about it for quite some time!!!

I like the idea of using it to reduce lag...... as it would use the fuel when theres no risk of fuel starvation - i.e. as the Turbo is spooling up...... (never liked the idea of tapping fuel lines to increase peak power at the top end... when you are straining the fuelling anyway - doing it at the bottom end is a far more feasible solution)

If lets say the 321 produces say 1bar at 3700rpm - if lets say I used a 25bhp jet (so I didnt use the bottle immediately!!) - how much quicker would you expect the Turbo to spool up - given you've had it!!

john banks

I think the iON P450 (GT30R/P20 based hybrid probably like the Bob turbo already mentioned and the MD321) is just liveable with on the 2.5, but there is no way on earth I would even consider it on a 2.0 even with an 8000 RPM limit, it is far too late to spool and a 20G would murder it in anything but a straight line race IMHO. The 20G was just liveable with on the 2.0 with a 7000 RPM limit (but I prefer a 16G), far more comfortable with 8000 RPM.

Perhaps the GT30Rs in their proper exhaust housings are a different proposition, but from what I've seen, something that can breath about 10% more top end than a GT30R/P20 hybrid spools up about the same.

The 20G spooled up 15-20% earlier than the iON.

Something that is well spooled by half of redline RPM IN LOWER GEARS makes a nice flexible road car. The iON on the 2.5 does not spool up really quickly for a throttle snap in top gear until you are at about 3300-3400 RPM, even though taken from low down it will hit 1 bar at 2900. The 20G had a wall of torque from 2900 RPM even for transients.

Just my opinions, I don't like my turbos too big. Some don't mind lag, I absolutely hate it.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Come on then Dave lets talk about the merits of NOS - simple to sort - do you actually need to map on a small jet?

Re the 20g housing - well I did say lag several times!!!.... and yes it is a nightmare compared to the td05/06!!!

Fuzz unplugged

What was your opinion of my Garrett then, now that you have peeled your fingers off of the Jesus handle and left the car.

Andy

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Fuzz

Very nice indeed..........and driven by a complete maniac...... I'm a very nervous passenger - but you could tell

I bought one..... I dont like lag but with your driving I was too scared to notice.........

I'll take you out for an even scarier drive to show you what an extra 0.5 bar and more advance (with higher compression!!) will do........

Fuzz unplugged

R19KET

A couple of points. Firstly, the MD321 is NOT the same as the turbo BRD/RCMS supply. It's a smaller version, and uses the P18 exhaust housing. I would rate it to about 420bhp. IIRC, it makes circa 1.5bar @ 3500rpm on Alan McRae's 2.0lt Type R, not certain on others.

Several people have made between 400-420bhp, using circa 1.5bar on Optimax, and a shot of NF.


With regard to lag, I think it's very subjective, and a lot to do with driving style.

As an example, Harvey uses the Ion P450 on a 2.0lt, and doesn't consider it laggy. John Banks uses it, and considers it a little laggy on his 2.5lt, even though it gives 1 bar by 2900rpm.

I get people asking me for a fast spooling turbo, because they consider a TD04 to be laggy !!! Whatever the turbo, some people will love it, and others hate it.

Horses for courses........

Mark.

Fuzz unplugged

what IS the one you BRD and RCM supply then (i.e mine) I never did find out..
All I know is that it has roller bearings and a 60: AR

any info would be greatly recieved.

Andy

Edit to add my car has never sniffed anything other than pure Optimax.

R19KET

Andy,

You would have to ask Bob for the exact spec' of the turbo you have.

Mark.

Fuzz unplugged

OK cheers Mark,
Just that I thought, at the time you were prepared to sell me the same turbo..

Andy

R19KET

Andy,

I can supply any combination of IHI/Garrett cored turbo, and spec' is based on what the customer asks for.

Mark.

Andy.F

Can I have a T88 mated to a P15 housing with a VF12 cover ?.... well you did say any

R19KET

Andy F,

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending that combination to anyone, even you However, since you build most of your own turbo's, maybe it's one you could try, and let us know how you get on

Mark.

Andy.F

will do

BTW that 35mm gate can hold down to 0.8 bar to 8k rpm no problem on a 2.33

Andy

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

John, which gear are you getting 1bar from at 2900? just wishing to compare.

Andy.F

Steven, what turbo are you running ?

john banks

Steven, top gear. That is off the actuator only, but adding boost control makes little difference.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Andy, Same as Trout.

In top gear, i have full boost by 3000rpm, 1bar is around 2700 IIRC. Will have to check, once i get the box back in.

R19KET

Yes, they seem to give very good control. I was initially concerned at just how soft the stock spring is. IIRC, it's about 6psi.

Mark.

David_Wallis

steve.. probably best not to discuss it on here.. but..

25 shot of nitrous would depend on your map.. have a look and see what ign advance you are running to try and pull the turbo in.. general consensus is that when running Nitrous you retard timing.. Also it depends on the fueling, however you wouldnt want to lean it off as it would be out when not spooling with nitrous..

So possibly pull 5 degrees see how it goes, then add the timing back if it will take it..

Nitrous can also reduce charge temps by upto 30 degrees

John.. is that boost figure with your left foot on the brakes?? and what fuel?

john banks

David, no braking, just floor at 2500 and wait for one bar. Optimax no additives.

The lure of a big V8 +- supercharger is strong

David_Wallis

John..speak to stevie turbo.. his new engine is 400bhp 450lbft without turbos..

with two turbos he gets a comfortable 800 - 1000 bhp..

Parts are cheaper as its american and its around 5 - 6 litres...

Just why he wants it in a granada I dunno.. (we wont mention his volvo run about though!)

David