WREXY

What? He was pulling your leg . No, I was running the above pressures. I never run more than this. 1.2 kg cm2 that is 1.17 bar is max for me. I'm not that crazy to blow my engine. I think the above pressures are quite safe. The car goes so well because my good m8 Jim, in OZ, who owns Croydon Autosports, knows his combinations. I bought my stuff off him. And he came here to Greece and set my car up. I did not have the Knocklink installed on Saturday. I installed it on Wednesday.

Cheers,

Wrexy

[Edited by WREXY - 11/2/2001 5:03:22 PM]

john banks

Have a K&N 57i on MY00 PPP with DP. Various threads and what folk have said make me wonder if it is helping or not. The car runs well, it has been on a month, and the MAF is OK on the select monitor.

So: do they always knacker the low down torque, or is it just sometimes, and what are the factors involved?

WREXY

When I fitted my 5 Zigen exhaust to my stock MY00, I felt it lost a little down low, but gained in the midrange and up top. Then I added the APS induction kit and noticed a big improvement throughout the rev range.

My m8 who has a PPP, recently installed the Falkland twin down pipe and the HKS manifold. He got a huge improvement with these mods and is about to install the APS induction kit. We will see whether he goes forward or backwards with this mod. And whether he loses any power down low or anywhere in the rev range. It will be interesting to see.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

JIM THEO

Hi all
I am thinking also about APS induction kit and exhaust manifolds (MY2000+PPP).
My main concern is if the APS witch has the same cone filter with K&N and better design for low down torque (longer tube-colder air), has as result too lean mixture (witch means det. etc etc) and causes engine problems!
I hope the ex. manifold don't affect the mixture too much as the induction mod or downpipes!
Is there anybody with induction kit and exhaust manifold fitted together?
Witch are your impressions?
Cheers
JIM

PS:John what is your %CO level?
I read the other thread by Stephen Done...


[This message has been edited by JIM THEO (edited 08 October 2001).]

WREXY

Hi Jim,

I have received my Knocklink, but still have to find the time to install it. I'll let you know if I'm getting any det with the APS induction kit, the 5 Zigen exhaust and Blitz DSBC boost controller running 1.2 kg/cm2.

In one year I still have not had a problem with my induction kit, or any problems with the engine, even though APS have claimed that they run lean under light throttle, as someone, can't remember who, posted recently and also Stelios got a letter from APS stating this. It may be different after fitting downpipes and extractors (manifolds) though. I don't know.

Cheers,

Wrexy

john banks

Don't know my %CO. Must find out. When I last had a select monitor on it was not at all lean, but at the time I was only running 14PSI boost - 16.5PSI now.

CharliePsycho

I am doing mods one at a time and then making judgements.

Standard P1 with Prodrive rear silencer.

So far the fitting an APS has leaned out low end dramatically, 2500-3000 massive dead spot, maybe even a miss-fire. Top end is showing improvement and the engine revs much more freely. The noise is excellent, not too loud.

I have changed back and forth between original and APS to check, it is definetly the induction kit doing it, and APS publically say that the free flowing filter leans out the mixture at lower revs. They recomend fixing the issue with a different ECU (!)

I am currently experimenting with a baffle just prior to the MAF to improve low-mid response, but without that I would say that the only reason to get induction is for the noises as otherwise it dramatically reduces the driveability of the car...

Note 5th gear 60mph is just below 3000 rpm, so putting your foot down does nothing and you get extended periods of lean running, although this is not a high load situation it does make the engine run hotter and encourages pinking. Under higher revs/load however this is all different as the mixture (appears) to come right again.

If I solve the issue with a baffle I'll keep it, otherwise I am going to dump it before it damages my engine.

...©

john banks

Any thoughts that the APS kit may work out differently to a standard K&N?

john banks

Puzzled, as mine is pulling like a train at 2500 rpm and there is no hint of a flat spot. But, different engine, ECU etc - MY00 PPP. I think I'll stick with it for this rather un-scientific reason until I hear more.

WREXY

Well my friend finally got his APS induction kit installed. He too said that he sometimes got a flat spot at around 3000RPM. He could not tell if he lost any power down low apart from the odd flat spot. I drove his car today and it definately flies with the PPP, APS, Falkland downpipe and HKS extractors. It did not hesitate when I drove it. He may post on this himself.

I sometimes, very rarely, get a flat spot too. But I thought it was just like the usual complaining other people post on, like weather, or ECU retarding ignition or my boost gain set high. I never thought it could be the APS kit untill now.

Wrexy.

[Edited by WREXY - 10/15/2001 12:44:01 AM]

Stelios

Charlie is right fellows,
This APS thing gives a (tiny for now no missfire)spot 3000 rpm reminisent of carburator "power spot" for the older of you! This means either the APS flows or it messes with the MAF in some way tricking it to see less A/F than actual. Well with my catless exhaust HKS d/p Ill see what i ll do. Either put the OE resonator box or put the mid cat back and wait till i decide on an ecu.



[Edited by Stelios - 10/15/2001 1:10:52 PM]

Pete Croney

Let me get this straight...

You are going to put a baffle in the induction pipework, so that you can continue to use a freer flowing cone filter?

Have I missed something???

CharliePsycho

I'm experimenting with a baffle just in front of the MAF (against the mesh) to see if it has any effect to richen up the mixture at lower rpm (from what I can tell throttle position does not affect the flat spot that I am seeing)

I will admit it does kind of defeat the object of the free flowing filter. In fact I have noticed that when the obstruction is at about 15% (the most I have dared to try so far) the turbo whistle and BOV noise is significantly reduced as well... So it is utterly pointless (as if the noises wern't pointless anyway ) I am going to try differing shapes to see what effect it has.

The baffle does seem to reduce the flat spot. It also seems (seems, this is very subjective as I have no access to a rolling road, but a fair amount of experience) to reduce top end, but I have yet to compare this to a standard air filter.

The aim is to get the best compromise I can (currently about 5% obstruction beneath the MAF) then compare that to standard. I have some shaping to try yet though.

Obviosly a trick flap on a spring to get the best of both worlds would be clever, however I believe in K.I.S.S. and don't really want springs and hinges in an airflow that gets to significant fractions of the spead of sound... (!)

Now where is the gaffer tape(!)

...©

john banks

I have the PPP centre and BB which are obviously not the least restrictive items out there. Also, there may be a difference between these APS and the vanilla K&N kits here? Also, these BPM intake pipes are presumably large diameter and very smooth, possibly again leading to differences between just bolting on a 57i? I might be talking rubbish, but just thought I'd throw in a few thoughts...

dowser

No resonator and panel filter - no flat spot

Richard

scoobysnacks

Excuse me for my ignorance but by 'resonator', do you mean the air box or exhaust resonator or something else?

john banks

he means the gourd like thing in the wing that feeds the airbox.

scoobysnacks

Isn't that just a plastic tube/funnel like thing that directs air from the front of the car through the wing to the air filter, or are there some sensors of some kind in there?

john banks

no sensors in the resonator itself. MAF sensor follows the airbox. And there is an inlet temperature sensor somewhere which I haven't found yet.

mutant_matt

Nope - there is a big plastic box with baffling inside it which smooths out the airflow before it hits the airbox...

Matt

CharliePsycho

The resonator is like a big plastic bottle with two inlets almost like a T at the top. The air is not forced around the bottle, it just 'resonates' before it gets to the air box that contains the panel filter.

The temperature sensor is located on top ot the metal duct that feeds air to the resonator and needs to be re-sited when you use an induction kit to a place that more closely matches the air temperature that the filter sees.

The APS induction kit actually seems to recomend drilling a hole in the induction tube after the filter and putting it in the flow!!! I mounted mine in the inner wing just above the filter.

...©

john banks

Oh that was the bit I had to plug into the side of the K&N kit ! LOL.

overthelimit

Just fitted a Macs Power induction kit, fantastic, its has not affect low end power, it has possibly exagerated an exisitng flat spot at 2000 rpm with my P1 (still a bit early to say as I have only fitted it an hour ago.
Waiting for down pipe and centre section to see if this helps.
overall good power increse with no side real trade off on low end
Rick

scoobysnacks

So, as I've got a Pipercross induction kit fitted, it it highly recommended that I remove the resonator and resite the temperature sensor? Will it really make much difference and how easy is it to do this job?

WREXY

QUOTE FROM WREXY. ORIGINALLY POSTED BY WREXY.

"Hi Jim,
I have received my Knocklink, but still have to find the time to install it. I'll let you know if I'm getting any det with the APS induction kit, the 5 Zigen exhaust and Blitz DSBC boost controller running 1.2 kg/cm2.

In one year I still have not had a problem with my induction kit, or any problems with the engine, even though APS have claimed that they run lean under light throttle, as someone, can't remember who, posted recently and also Stelios got a letter from APS stating this. It may be different after fitting downpipes and extractors (manifolds) though. I don't know."



Jim,

I have installed the Knocklink. There is no det whatsoever. I only get the one green light as my revs increase, which is normal.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

john banks

How are you checking fuelling at 1.2bar? What boost is held at the top end?

WREXY

Hi John,

I'm not monitoring fuel. I have no lambdalink. I assume it's OK coz no detting. It peaks 1.2 kg cm2 and holds 1.17kg cm2 all the way to around 6500rpm. I don't go over 6500. If I ever do anything over 5500 in fourth or fifth gear, I manually turn the boost down on my controller to 1.05 kg cm2. I think kg cm2 is less than bar. I think 1 bar is 0.98 kg cm2, so 1.17 kg cm2 is 1.15 bar.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

john banks

That's helpful thanks. When I put on my Dawes MBC I am going to run an accurate digi voltmeter across the lambda sensor, as I have no knock link.

JIM THEO

Hi WREXY.
I am happy with your results!
I am waiting a month now the answer from Mike-Scobymania about their new remote-led Knocklink sensor.
I think, I'll keep waiting!
May be MRT Australia is better for me...

Cheers

JIM

Stelios

Hiya Jim,
long time no knocklink hey?
Wrexy
one VF29 coming up!
Strewth m8 wheres Jimmy with ma Unichip?