Sam Elassar

hi there
i am looking for feed back from people who has that done. how will it compare to the aftermarket ones you buy ?

will it improve the low end, top end, mid range ?

will change the sound of the car.

this kind of info

cheers

sam
once this is done it will be inlet manifold time

dfullerton

Hi Sam i did before i got my 3inch turbo back system from MRT, noticed engine reved better 5500rpm up to 6000rpm

StephenDone

Hi Sam,

The standard manifold has several sound deadening sections within it. These restrict flow. You could always remove these (though I haven't tried) if you did want to keep the existing manifold. Also, I believe the standard manifold ports are larger than on the engine block - they don't match, and this isn't good either.

I got the PE Power Manifold and have no regrets. It made more difference than the rest of my exhaust swap. I've got pictures & dynos of both on my site -

MorayMackenzie

StephenDone,

The standard manifold ports are smaller than the exhaust ports on the block... "porting" the standard manifold requires the removal of material from the manifold to better match the ports on the block. The manifold will tend to have soot marks where the port sizes are mismatched, which aids "porting".

Moray

Bob Rawle

sam, i can mail you jpegs of what i did to mine if you like.
pete, it is well worth doing the intermediate ones as long as its done correctly.

GavinP

Bob,

I would be interested in the pictures as well please.

Thanks

Gavin

Sam Elassar

dfullerton

is that all the gains do you think you got ? i am wanting to improve the low revs area.

i don't really want to got through the expense of getting something like PE power manifold as it is unjustifiably expensive in my case. porting the standard ones should cost a lot less than this.

i have seen them, you can use the gasket marks as your guide. i know some one who did it himself, so it could not be that difficult.

another thing, are all the exhaust manifolds interchangeable between the different models ?


sam

Pete Croney

Sam

Its well worth doing and, apart from the time, just costs a set of gaskets.

The exhaust ports can be opened and the inside surface smoothed off. There are also some very bad welds in the up pipe that can be flowed. I'm not sure there is any benefit in working the intermediate joints, providing the two flanges are matched (diameter and centering).

It makes quite a difference to the exhaust note.

Pieman

Pete,

Is this something you (SS) could do for us?

firefox

Sam,

Check with Mark (R19KET) he ran some stock headers I ported for him.

J.

ps - I believe Pat did too.

Pete Croney

Yep, we do it. I have now done it on my 01 too.

Sam Elassar

j

i will try to get in touch with mark


hi pete

thanks for the info. so are you saying that there is no need to do the cross over pipe, just the two manifold bits and the turbo up pipe ?

will this improve low down torque ?

does it make the car noiser ?

do you do a exchange service ?

sorry for all the questions.

thanks every one for the replies keep them coming

steve McCulloch

Sam

I'll be getting my standard headers ported. Thought about going the aftermarket route but since different ones do different things - and they are so expensive! I decided that the best way was to go with the current ones - and save myself shed loads of money in the process!

I expect a gain in performance (as long as it feels quicker on the road, thats how I'll measure it - none of this RR nonsense in this case)but I expect it will sound very similar - not that I can hear anything except the BPM exhaust anyway!

Should take several hrs of work - but I know a 'man who can' do it!

(Sam - afterall...... I could'nt just stop at fitting the FMIC..... - I'll get the headers ported at the same time!)
Then its on to the rolling road to see the overall result! - might even 'breach' the 280hp barrier at Powerstation (but I'm not placing any bets on this!)

Steve

Sam Elassar

steve, how does that not surprise me . i honestly don't think i will ever stop at any point. but are you talking about the exhaust manifold or the inlet manifold. i want to do things one bit at a time. first i will do the exhaust manifold, then i will do the inlet manifold, then probably cams, etc.. i think if i can get a good round number in couple of years lets say 400bhp i will be happy

Bob
you are a star as always, i do have your pics but they don't show the cross over pipe that well. so far i have got the manifold bits on either side already made, just looking for the turbo uppipe and crossover one. so do you have a pic of the crossover pipe.

sam

[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 10 August 2001).]

SecretAgentMan

*lol*

Yeah Sam, I hear U mate, I've just installed the new VF24...now I'll just need some decent plugs, maybe a bit more attention to the intake side...and then this porting biz sounds very interesting...and an fmic later on. Somewhere in there there's bound to be a set of forged pistons and while we're at it new conrods as well.
I really think this could be described as "subariituus modifiikaatuus".



/J

Sam Elassar

/j
porting sounds interesting, but how much will you gains from it ? i will tell you in few weeks, if i remembe correctely our cars are kind of similar. bob's car and mark both have different cams from ours so you can't really tell what gain you will get.

the only thing though is when my engine goes i will have no excuse for keeping it 2l

sam

light12

hi bob.
can you please send me the pics .
with the bigger turbo i think porting the headers is a good idea.
thanks
eitan

SecretAgentMan

Yeah Sam, I'll definitely look into porting the stock manifold.
I think we're kinda at the same level...Link, Vf turbos, no cats

The VF24 is lovely so far, only "setback" is that it kicks in 4-500 revs later than the TD04 (around 3500 rpm).

Are you tuning your link yourself, or is Bob sorting that bit for you?

/Jerry

[This message has been edited by SecretAgentMan (edited 11 August 2001).]

Sam Elassar

jerry
i am tuning the link myself, with help from bob once a while to check that i am on the right track. i have had the link for 18months now so i kinda know it like the back of my hand. the only thing is i am thinking of getting this new Q pclink chip which mean i will have to learn every thing again.

out of interest what boost are you getting at what RPM with the VF24.

for me with the VF23 IN 4TH
13-14psi @3000rpm
16-17psi@3500
18-19psi @3700
IN 5TH i get the full boost well below 3300-3400

below 2000revs in any gear and it feels really slow in comparison i suppose

[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 11 August 2001).]

SecretAgentMan

My VF24 delivers 18 psi @ 3500 rpm, I need to check where it kicks off...usually when it does you've got other things to keep track of.

The car is very fun to drive now, pulls stronger in the midrange, and doesn't tail off at all like the td04.

Did you need to increase fuelling much in rows 5 and 6?

I'm getting the new PCLink chip as well, I've already fiddled a bit with it, maybe we could learn from eachothers (mistakes? *lol*) ?

Cheers

/Jerry

Dragged a 350 bhp cossie yesterday, missed the start a little bit - otherwise it'd been tight - ****ty driver - great car.

steve McCulloch

Sam

Exhaust Manifold. May produce some more BHP and torque - but the difference probably is'nt great (who knows?)

I'm also getting the new Link Chip from Bob. I'm also looking into changing the turbo ..... again as the one Bob has from Turbo Dynamics is supposed to be much better than my VF22 md195 hybrid from them - less lag, and much more power!

Just wish I could have anti-lag effects! - saw an RX7 in Bristol on Friday night that was extremely loud and was launching flames all over the place! - very fast indeed!

Adam M

Steve are you sure about that claim?

I can't imagine Bob would have said that.

I run an md195 in my car, and to my knowledge it has the biggest and most durable compressor wheel in the ihi range that turbo dynamics sell. That is why it is rated to 1.8 bar, whereas the brd turbo is smaller and therefore less laggy but is only rated to 1.5 bar, again according to turbo dynamics.

I bought my turbo because I believed it would be happier flowing more air to a larger capacity engine, and hence produce more power and the expense of spool up time.

Had i known it is possible to have your cake and eat it.........

Perhaps Bob can explain this , if so, I may have to consider changing mine over too.

steve McCulloch

Yes

Bob Rawle

Thought that the MD195 used a Garrett compressor wheel which is why its capable of running at 1.8 bar, IHI wheels are lighter, therefore more fragile but able to spool quicker size for size. My turbo is actually good for a constant 1.6 bar, that's a conservative estimate arising from discussions with Craig at TD. All I know is that compared with a MD191 (400 bhp) TD item using same exhaust and induction I needed to add 20% more fuel (proportional). The turbo is designed to run with engines that have NOT been upgraded internally, its one of the reasons why I am still able to use the stock top mount. Most people do not want to sacrifice the low end performance when they upgrade, the objective was to maintain as much of that as possible. Looking forward to the 18th when I will be able to cross check some latest changes to the setup. Boost pressure is not the be all and end all, different wheels will move differing amounts of air at the same boost so wheel design is just as important as its ability to run at a boost level. (pretty obvious I know)

So I am thoroughly enjoying the cake !!!

MorayMackenzie

Hi Steve,

Was the RX7 a purpleish coloured one?

Moray

steve McCulloch

Moray

Could'nt really tell as it was dark.. but probably Purple - there were two of them - one fairly standardish and the other... very loud/fast and lots of Motec style noises!

Sam

UK car....... erm..... about 10bhp isn't it??

Adam M

Sam,

"they" say uk cars are the same as wrxs internally.

Meaning as standard they "can" pump out 276bhp. Maybe this is a safe tuning zone, beyond that I am sure you can apply the same rules as you would to tuning a wrx.

Have seen many now at just over 300. But my car with stronger internals is around there, and I would not be happy pushiong it much further!

Bob,

I dont understand how this turbo can be suited specifically to standard internals cars. Surely all the turbo does is flow a certain amount of air at a certain pressure and certain temperature.

I have heard that it spools up incredibly, which must be awesome, but flows more than vf22s (I would love to try this on a 2.2), but I dont understand how flowing more than a vf22, can mean it is suited to standard internal cars.

Is it a case of it is the best turbo to fit, before you start moving massively upmarket, when you are in the position to go for monster horsepower? if so that would make sense.

Sam Elassar

hi bob
so at which point will a UK car be able to use the same turbo as yours ? after cams, injectors?

does any one know what how much power can the standard internals on a UK car take. ie piston ?
sam

steve McCulloch

Adam

You dont need any more power in your car, by all accounts you never even reach 30mph....

so you going for a 'downgrade' next?.......

[This message has been edited by steve McCulloch (edited 14 August 2001).]

GavinP

I found this about intake porting which is interesting......