T-uk

I have been looking at ECU upgrades for a while now and have come to the conclusion that there are three main choices,Link,2nd hand Prodrive ECU and Unichip.

I personally feel the Link is best but by the time you buy all the extras and get it mapped at BRD,things just get too expensive for my budget,even though you get a lot for your cash,as knock and lambda sensors make sense with any mods.Unichips seem to be either good or bad with some owners having to make return trips to get them reprogrammed due to overboosting or detting,so I ruled this out.this left the 2nd hand Prodrive ECU,not the best gains but with built in safety,but also like rocking horse sh*t to find.

on Sunday I attended a rolling road day where one of the owners had a bleed valve with standard ECU.he had good gains (16psi peak/15psi held)25hp more than my car with same mods.he told me he could raise boost slightly higher but hit overboost at 18psi.

I thought this may be a cheap fix until I can source a Prodrive ECU,came back here and did a search on bleed valves and electronic boost controllers.after reading

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Hi John,

Do I regret getting an EBC? No! You've seen my results, and everything seems fine. Although that's no gaurantee that it will be ok on another car!

I'm running a peak/holding boost of 17.3 psi, but this is right up to the redline. I know there are some controllers that will drop off the boost according to the revs.

You know that an EBC will not modify the ignition timing or the fuelling.

As for pushing the envelope, I'm not really the person to ask.

It depends how far you want to go with your modifications! I thought the EBC would be fine, but I now have a new turbo installed. To ulitise the turbo properly, I'm getting a Link ECU installed, and getting the fuelling, ignition timing and boost mapped correctly!!

Cheers
Andy

THOMO

dont forget MOTEC ECU

TopCat

Andy, what's that crap Turbo you have??;-)

I got you message today, maybe meet tomorrow with the others?


Moe

T-uk

Hi Andy,

I thought the standard ECU could cope upto 17/18psi and adjust ignition and fuelling to compensate and it was only with higher boost (where for example a Superchipped owner has upped the boost himself)that problems arose,at least this is what my local performance centre told me.he said that he had never seen a UK failure at 18psi but owners play with the bleed valve themselves and are soon over 20psi.this also ties in with NITO's comments in the above thread.

as for future mods.,who knows,I did not want to do anything to this car after spending too much making my old car go faster only to get about £200 extra for it .I would love a Link but by the time I go down for fitting,it would cost over £1500+big turbo+fmic+monster brakes+suspension+++,why not just save up and buy a P1 or Evo6 (only my opinion),a comment from the Bob who had the modded 98,then 00 and now P1 on this please.you have to draw a line some where.

THOMO,
Motec well out the price range .

john

GavinP

John,

A couple of links that may be of interest:

FASTER MIKE!!

just a thought, why not add air/fuel controller in with ebc, as i think they only cost about £120. if memory serves me right from an advert I think it was hks too. could be wrong. mike

T-uk

Hi all and thanks for the replies.

Gavin,that second site seems quite a good bit of kit,similar to a bleed valve but with controller advantages although it is still under bonnet adj.,do you or do you know anyone that runs one and are they available over here?.the main reason I was looking at EBC's was so that on colder days the boost is still controlled,where as with a manual type valve I may hit over boost which I do not want to do.

Mike,do not think I need a air/fuel controller as I do not intend to go over the standard ECU boost cut,I am looking for possibly 16psi peak/15ish held,even though from other threads more may be possible.

still no horror stories so things are looking good

john

submannz

Link or Motec the best options both do away with the air flow meter so you can make an awesome intake system with no restrictions.

Link would be the easiest to setup, Possum Bourne in NZ has a Possum link which plugs into your existing Subaru wiring loom.

The tuning is not as flexible as the motec.

Dan

bob

Hi T-uk
You have asked for a comment from me so this is my thoughts. I am not saying they are right just the way I think.

MY98 PPP Only had this for a short time before getting my money back so do not want to comment on it.

MY98 PE Phase 1. + Exhaust mods running 16-17 lb boost 283 BHP and 276 Torque. This car went like a rocket. 40,000 miles and 2 yrs later the car is still going like a rocket and had no problems.

MY00 known as hesitating bag of sh!te. Had PossumLink on this one about 267bhp 267 torque. Sorted the hesitation out, but this car would not keep up with the MY98 I had. It did drive side by side with a MY97 Unichip car and we could not see any difference in a straight line between the two cars.

Andy Tang’s motor with EBC is as powerful as any of the cars I have had at only a fraction of the price.
If you are happy with a UK car and 280-290 bhp then the EBC I think is the way to go. As Andy says they have controllers that taper the boost off at higher rev’s now. My UK cars always run out of puff just after 5500rpm anyway.

If you want more than this then its bigger turbo’s, injectors and Link/Motec. But you are talking money here. You might as well start with an STI and build from here.

One reason I went for the P1+ full SS exhaust 291 bhp much more power than all of them but you would expect that. Once I am fed up with this power. I will have to have a think about what’s next.

RaymondH

John,

I feel like you in that I would really like a Link ECU but there is nowhere reasonably local where I could get it set up and I'm certainly not going to try myself - I know my limits. (Thought.........maybe Bob Rawle could fill the boot of his car with Links and do a tour of Britain sort of thing fitting them on the way so mixing business with pleasure ) Anyway, I have an HKS EVC IV from Nito and I'm very pleased with it. I can't add anything to what Nito has already said but can wholeheartedly agree with it. I also have the Samco intercooler hoses (have you ever seen the standard one that hides below the intercooler - no wonder it is changed as part of the PPP), GGR turbo inlet pipe (again, the standard one looks unbelievably restrictive and I noticed a surprising improvement after binning it) and fully Scoobysported exhaust. The car goes like a rocket . As usual, though, you get used to power and I'm now thinking ahead to what to do next for some more There must be an opportunity for somebody like Star Performance with their 4WD dyno to start fitting Unichips, Links etc - maybe we should start dropping hints to them!!

Raymond.

[This message has been edited by RaymondH (edited 15 August 2001).]

Trout...

A number of the stories my remain untold due to warranty implications or personal embarrassement of course!

If you do got the EBC route - then get a well set up knock link just in case the ECU doesn't give you enough fuel. You never know.

Cheers,

Trout

Sam Elassar

MY00 has got 440cc injectors and they should be good for 350bhp. so he does not need to change them.

T-uk

Raymond,if Bob Rawle had a fitting agent in Scotland like Star I would have had one ages ago .problem is where do we go if there is a problem.

Trout,please tell more,no names needed.I was thinking the same about knock+lambda Link sensors with the EBC,just to keep an eye on things,but then this makes the Link package look even better value.

john

SCOOBERATORS

I had the link package fitted by brdevelopments (bob) on saturday. This is a very good package,I am happy with mine,but i can see your point,I think the best thing to do is to discuss it with them and see what there answer is.

keo

FAO the Scottish contingent interested in link.

One of the lads at AWD motorsport in Perth (01738 633336)told me that they bring Bob Rawle up to fit the link systems purchased from them. Quoted me, if memory serves me right, approx £1600 for the MY01 system, don't know exactly what this included.

Sam Elassar

i don't think the AWD thing has worked out. contact bob before you start spreading rumors.

if you contact bob you may be surprised as he may have a job or two up here in scotland soon anyway. you never know.?

T-uk

went to order a EBC today and the seller who had them in stock,talked me out of it.he said that if I upped the boost while running a standard ECU(said I wanted 16psi) I would still hit the overboost occasionally and one day pull out to overtake someone and fill my pants as overboost kicks in.I did not think this happened once they were set .comments please.

also has anyone heard of any Superchipped cars letting go at 18psi max?I personally know of a few above this with problems but none at 17/18.the guy told me that of approx 40 MY99/00's he has Superchipped,it was only the owner tweaked and imports that had problems.

john

Sam Elassar

john
you know what you want mate, just go ahead and do it you won't regert it. even if it means flying Mr Rawle up, its has been done before .
and if you are worried about the support it is not really a problem, in this day and age

sam

GavinP

John,

Re the Dawes Devices MBC see here:

bob

I have not heard of Electronic Boost Controllers that do not control the boost. The point of an EBC is to control the boost better than the std system can, and at the boost you require.
Superchip = a lot of money for a £20 bleed valve.

bob

Gavin/
35 bucks well spent mate.

keo

Sorry for starting a rumour sam??????, you are obviously better informed than the guys from AWD. I'll guess they'll be surprised when bob doesn't show up to fit their link kits.

Sam Elassar

i am not saying that it is definitely not happening but what i am saying is, until the links start rolling off AWD it is only talks.

PLEASE don't get me wrong.

john banks

My MY00 PPP is now boosting to 18PSI and holding 17PSI with overboost fixed. It is very effective (and safe). It also gains from better advance. Like most others who have posted on it, £1763 actually seems like good value when you drive it.

Enjoy whatever you get sorted out

Adam M

T-UK, in my opinion, you really should buy a lambda and knock link anyway. Give Bob Rawle Developments a call, I think you will find they always have them in stock.

They will allow you to react should you get a dodgy fuel batch etc.

I have been reading this board for over two years now, and the conclusions I have come to through stories and through knowing people I consider to be in the know is to avoid bleed valves like the plague. I am sure they can be safe, but they are a crude fix to a craving for power, and can easily end up in tears.

As you have said, the superchipsesque contigent are nothing more than expensive bleed valves. There have been several cars that have blown up, that I can think of. As trout says, these will be covered up for warranty purposes.

The map is such an important factor that you really have to learn who to trust. Bear in mind that if the map is bad, you are risking the most expensive component of your engine and also a lot of time off the road and inconvenience.

This leaves Unichips or replacement ecus

There is only one commercially employable mapper who hasn't lost a car and has produced consistently reliable cars, and that is Bob Rawle.

It is academic, if you want an ecu upgrade there is no choice in the matter, unless you want to pioneer a pectel unit, but this will cost you loads more and you are taking a risk given no commmercial mappers have done a private car yet.

You mention cost. I asusme the 1500 must include getting down south etc. It does seem that teher are many scottish based people in need of help, so perhaps sam is right and there could be an option to send Bob up there. there would need to be quite a few people in need to make it worthwhile .

You mention one point regarding whether it is worth upgrading just to sell the car when you could buy a P1.

Bob Rawle would have to answer this, but aren't my00 and P1s of the same vintage? meaning they could run the same link if purchased?

The replacement ecu will be a great asset to any car, but you can remove them entirely and sell the mods on separately. I guarantee this would yield more money.

If this is a concern, perhaps you should save for a MoTeC. This is a generic ecu and will be able to work in other cars should you change it. It will certinaly improve a P1 no end if you go down that route.

It may be more money initially, but there will always be a massive second hand demand.

Blackscooby

I posted this earlier in a different thread.

I went down the Apexi AFC and AVC-R route mid last year after blowing a piston due to excessive boost. The amount I spent I now know I could have purchased a link ECU and have had it set up.

Looking back at my purchase decisions I would have bought the link ~ however the motorsport place advised on the APEXI kit.

I do like the AVC-R features via the screen regarding max boost reached and the information it provides. However if I had the money I'd still get a link ECU fitted so that it sorts out the ignition advance and fueling allowing me to run more than 1.3bar. Then I'd use the APEXI kit for boost monitoring.

However it seems one hell of an expensive set up... I could have had MoTeC for the equivalent of APEXI + Link DUH !

All inclusive I think my setup was over 1800 notes (Units, fitting and VAT). AVC-R, ACF and BoV.

As I said not **THAT** much more and I could have had MoTeC.


Mark

T-uk

okay,some good replies,

I have send Bob Rawle a mail to find out if he is doing a Scottish trip or not in the near future.I also took the opportunity to ask about availability of Knock/Lambda Link sensors,as if he is doing a tour and I get them fitted asap myself,this will spread the costs out and also let me see what values the standard ECU shows,which I think will aid me in the future whatever route I take.I should have had these in months ago,but other things come up,usually a trackday ,tyres or brake parts these f***ers do eat em.

what Adam said of second hand value made sense,as did the question of a version 5 ECU fitting a P1.

I may still go the EBC route but will wait and see what Bob Rawle's plans are regarding Scotland.

john