Are Oil Coolers A Waste Of Money ?
27 March 2001, 10:53 AM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose it depends on what oil temps you are seeing under sustained high load / high speed operation.
Some (euro spec) Imprezas run a undertray or splash guard which is thought to push sump temps up to over 120 deg C in extremis. Presumably the 'doughnut' oil cooler is overloaded in these circumstances, and additional cooling would be beneficial.
You know your API and GL specs - what temperature range is acceptable for a decent synthetic oil (say 5 or 10W/40)? What are the expected upper and lower temps?.
Cheers,
Alex
Some (euro spec) Imprezas run a undertray or splash guard which is thought to push sump temps up to over 120 deg C in extremis. Presumably the 'doughnut' oil cooler is overloaded in these circumstances, and additional cooling would be beneficial.
You know your API and GL specs - what temperature range is acceptable for a decent synthetic oil (say 5 or 10W/40)? What are the expected upper and lower temps?.
Cheers,
Alex
29 March 2001, 05:46 PM
#4
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Option motorsport told me that it is absolutely essential to run uprated injectors (550cc+) and uprated fuel pumps when running over 1.2bar boost... this isn't necessarily the case though.
Option motorsport also told me that they tune cars based on exhaust gass temperature, rather than lambda... interesting... I assume they make a point of fitting the sensor BEFORE the turbo.
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 29 March 2001).]
Option motorsport also told me that they tune cars based on exhaust gass temperature, rather than lambda... interesting... I assume they make a point of fitting the sensor BEFORE the turbo.
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 29 March 2001).]
29 March 2001, 06:30 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 1999
Location: SSO2003 2nd, SSO2005 1st, SSO2006 2nd, TACC Rd4 5th 4wd: In my car ;-)
Posts: 2,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And they told me that they could change the main, and big end barings, without taking the engine out !!!!!!!.
550cc injectors are good for circa 400bhp.....a tad optimistic for our cars running 1.2bar.....or even 1.5bar !!!
Mark.
550cc injectors are good for circa 400bhp.....a tad optimistic for our cars running 1.2bar.....or even 1.5bar !!!
Mark.
27 June 2001, 12:28 AM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When can we see the pictures of this 700bhp+ open-wheel Impreza ? 
Common sense would state that you fit an oil temp gauge first to see whether a cooler is required.
My (very limited) knowledge of injectors is that you use the smallest available that will meet the targets required (with a little margin) - this allows finer control.
Thanks
Gavin
Common sense would state that you fit an oil temp gauge first to see whether a cooler is required.
My (very limited) knowledge of injectors is that you use the smallest available that will meet the targets required (with a little margin) - this allows finer control.
Thanks
Gavin
Trending Topics
27 June 2001, 10:52 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents
You cannot deny the benefits of an oil cooler. I suggest the fitting of an oil temp gauge then driving the car hard without an oil cooler and looking at the gauge, then fitting an oil cooler and then keep an eye on the gauge. You will soon form your own opinion, personally I think it’s important for track work and v hard driving however if you don't drive like that then don't get one.
Re Option motorsport they are the only company I know of in the UK that have 3 or more cars at any one time with over 700bhp, one of them is a 917 hp Skyline whos' engine bay looks like a doctors surgery. They employ one mechanic who is x BAR, and another who was a technician for HKS for 12 years. The MD of the company was a technician on the Blitz Nurenburg record Supra. In Japan they are one of the country’s’ largest tuners they even have their own Jap mag and videos and they have never had a car blow up!
You cannot deny their credentials or experience when it comes to tuning Jap cars.
Moray I know it is feasible to run a car with smaller injectors at 1.2 bar, but say hello to more det than the car with larger injectors!
R19ket, I'd like to see them try, but I wouldn't put it past them!
Just my experience of course, but they aren't cheap I will say that
You cannot deny the benefits of an oil cooler. I suggest the fitting of an oil temp gauge then driving the car hard without an oil cooler and looking at the gauge, then fitting an oil cooler and then keep an eye on the gauge. You will soon form your own opinion, personally I think it’s important for track work and v hard driving however if you don't drive like that then don't get one.
Re Option motorsport they are the only company I know of in the UK that have 3 or more cars at any one time with over 700bhp, one of them is a 917 hp Skyline whos' engine bay looks like a doctors surgery. They employ one mechanic who is x BAR, and another who was a technician for HKS for 12 years. The MD of the company was a technician on the Blitz Nurenburg record Supra. In Japan they are one of the country’s’ largest tuners they even have their own Jap mag and videos and they have never had a car blow up!
You cannot deny their credentials or experience when it comes to tuning Jap cars.
Moray I know it is feasible to run a car with smaller injectors at 1.2 bar, but say hello to more det than the car with larger injectors!
R19ket, I'd like to see them try, but I wouldn't put it past them!
Just my experience of course, but they aren't cheap I will say that
28 June 2001, 02:01 PM
#11
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scott,
Sorry, didn't mean to touch a raw nerve... I assume Option have done some work for you and that you are happy with it?
However:
You said: "Moray I know it is feasible to run a car with smaller injectors at 1.2 bar, but say hello to more det than the car with larger injectors!"
I'm sorry, but what on earth does that mean? My car didn't det on 440cc injectors running up to 1.4bar! Quite frankly, I think having no det was just about acceptable to me, and I don't see how large injectors would let me reduce det to less than nothing.
Subaru originally designed my car, (STI 3 Type RA VLimited) with 440cc injectors and, IIRC, mapped it to run a peak boost of at least 1.1bar from the factory... Surely they won't set the car up in such a way that a mere 0.1bar (1.47psi) increase (cold weather overboost?) would completely overload the standard fuelling system's ability to cope?
My point is that Nana at Option told me that you simply can't run 1.2bar boost and above without fitting bigger injectors and an uprated fuel pump... this is simply not the case.
Moray
Sorry, didn't mean to touch a raw nerve... I assume Option have done some work for you and that you are happy with it?
However:
You said: "Moray I know it is feasible to run a car with smaller injectors at 1.2 bar, but say hello to more det than the car with larger injectors!"
I'm sorry, but what on earth does that mean? My car didn't det on 440cc injectors running up to 1.4bar! Quite frankly, I think having no det was just about acceptable to me, and I don't see how large injectors would let me reduce det to less than nothing.
Subaru originally designed my car, (STI 3 Type RA VLimited) with 440cc injectors and, IIRC, mapped it to run a peak boost of at least 1.1bar from the factory... Surely they won't set the car up in such a way that a mere 0.1bar (1.47psi) increase (cold weather overboost?) would completely overload the standard fuelling system's ability to cope?
My point is that Nana at Option told me that you simply can't run 1.2bar boost and above without fitting bigger injectors and an uprated fuel pump... this is simply not the case.
Moray
28 June 2001, 04:10 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 2,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would just like to add. I was running 1.2BAR on a TD04 with the little old uk injectors. AND DID NOT HAVE ANY DET!
Since then, a turbo change (bigger) has taken place, and 1.15BAR NO DET.
Make of this what you like.
Dan
Since then, a turbo change (bigger) has taken place, and 1.15BAR NO DET.
Make of this what you like.
Dan
29 June 2001, 08:48 AM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 7,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Adam M:
<B>Moray, you are wrong, you must be cos option are the gods!
I know cos my mate scott says so
[/quote]
Play nice now Adam
Matt
<B>Moray, you are wrong, you must be cos option are the gods!
I know cos my mate scott says so
[/quote]Play nice now Adam
Matt
29 June 2001, 09:39 AM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
he he he he
Moray you didn't M8 don't get me wrong
All to often on here I read about blah blah said this and blah blah said that!
I was merely pointing out that you can't knock their capabilities when it comes to tunning cars.
Probable alot of pent up sexual frustration, you must understand I am married to Boba Fett!
Did you uprate your fuel pump? with your 440cc injectors?
Scott
Soon to be frozen in carbonite if the Mrs finds out!
Moray you didn't M8 don't get me wrong
All to often on here I read about blah blah said this and blah blah said that!
I was merely pointing out that you can't knock their capabilities when it comes to tunning cars.
Probable alot of pent up sexual frustration, you must understand I am married to Boba Fett!
Did you uprate your fuel pump? with your 440cc injectors?
Scott
Soon to be frozen in carbonite if the Mrs finds out!
29 June 2001, 08:33 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi all.
bigger 550 cc injectors are only necessary if you have a larger turbo, on a vf22 you would not need to upgrade to 550 , i run an apex turbo with a 70 mm rotor and 550 apex inj.
bigger 550 cc injectors are only necessary if you have a larger turbo, on a vf22 you would not need to upgrade to 550 , i run an apex turbo with a 70 mm rotor and 550 apex inj.
30 June 2001, 12:37 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by light12:
<B>hi all.
bigger 550 cc injectors are only necessary if you have a larger turbo, on a vf22 you would not need to upgrade to 550 , i run an apex turbo with a 70 mm rotor and 550 apex inj.[/quote]
With this setup do you changed your fuel pump and chip? Any RR figure?
Hyper
<B>hi all.
bigger 550 cc injectors are only necessary if you have a larger turbo, on a vf22 you would not need to upgrade to 550 , i run an apex turbo with a 70 mm rotor and 550 apex inj.[/quote]
With this setup do you changed your fuel pump and chip? Any RR figure?
Hyper
30 June 2001, 04:27 PM
#19
Ecu Specialist
My experiences ...
380cc injectors are fine up to 1.2 bar using the TD04L turbo fitted to Uk cars as standard. Theoretically they should be able to support 300 bhp.
My Sti 2 wagon was just about ok up to 1.2 bar as well, same injectors but TD05H turbo (bigger). At 1.4/1.5 bar though they were close to 110% duty and the car would go very lean, replacing with a set of 480cc injectors fixed that. No issues with the standard fuel system even though it was an early one.
440cc injectors with either VF23,24,28 are also ok up to 1.4 bar, injector duty is getting close but its liveable, above 6500 rpm its becoming marginal but only due to the injectors not the fuel system. Tailing boost down above that sorts this out. Even a VF22 would not mandate uprated injectors.
My STi 5 with its standard 440's and all its mods is in trouble as by 6200 rpm I hit 100% injector duty, This is due to the turbo I am using, A set of bigger injectors will sort that. On the Easter rolling road day the data log shows that at 7000 rpm and 1.28 bar injector duty was struggling at 113% ie injectors wide open.
Uprating the fuel pump is fine but the injectors will only flow as much fuel as the pressure drop across them allows so if the standard pump provides enough flow at that pressure then uprating it just circulates the fuel from the front to back of the car more quickly given fuel pressure remains the same, No more fuel will flow thro the injectors unless pressure drop across the injector is increased. Now upping the fuel pressure is a different matter, By upping the pressure on the standard pump you could reduce flow and so it would then be very wise to uprate the fuel pump as well.
380cc injectors are fine up to 1.2 bar using the TD04L turbo fitted to Uk cars as standard. Theoretically they should be able to support 300 bhp.
My Sti 2 wagon was just about ok up to 1.2 bar as well, same injectors but TD05H turbo (bigger). At 1.4/1.5 bar though they were close to 110% duty and the car would go very lean, replacing with a set of 480cc injectors fixed that. No issues with the standard fuel system even though it was an early one.
440cc injectors with either VF23,24,28 are also ok up to 1.4 bar, injector duty is getting close but its liveable, above 6500 rpm its becoming marginal but only due to the injectors not the fuel system. Tailing boost down above that sorts this out. Even a VF22 would not mandate uprated injectors.
My STi 5 with its standard 440's and all its mods is in trouble as by 6200 rpm I hit 100% injector duty, This is due to the turbo I am using, A set of bigger injectors will sort that. On the Easter rolling road day the data log shows that at 7000 rpm and 1.28 bar injector duty was struggling at 113% ie injectors wide open.
Uprating the fuel pump is fine but the injectors will only flow as much fuel as the pressure drop across them allows so if the standard pump provides enough flow at that pressure then uprating it just circulates the fuel from the front to back of the car more quickly given fuel pressure remains the same, No more fuel will flow thro the injectors unless pressure drop across the injector is increased. Now upping the fuel pressure is a different matter, By upping the pressure on the standard pump you could reduce flow and so it would then be very wise to uprate the fuel pump as well.
30 June 2001, 05:08 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bob Rawle:
Uprating the fuel pump is fine but the injectors will only flow as much fuel as the pressure drop across them allows so if the standard pump provides enough flow at that pressure then uprating it just circulates the fuel from the front to back of the car more quickly given fuel pressure remains the same, No more fuel will flow thro the injectors unless pressure drop across the injector is increased. Now upping the fuel pressure is a different matter, By upping the pressure on the standard pump you could reduce flow and so it would then be very wise to uprate the fuel pump as well. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly !! totally agree here !!
Hyper
Uprating the fuel pump is fine but the injectors will only flow as much fuel as the pressure drop across them allows so if the standard pump provides enough flow at that pressure then uprating it just circulates the fuel from the front to back of the car more quickly given fuel pressure remains the same, No more fuel will flow thro the injectors unless pressure drop across the injector is increased. Now upping the fuel pressure is a different matter, By upping the pressure on the standard pump you could reduce flow and so it would then be very wise to uprate the fuel pump as well. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly !! totally agree here !!
Hyper
01 July 2001, 03:41 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Where age and treachery reins over youthful exuberance
Posts: 5,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any chance of getting this thread back on topic? It's oil coolers.
Any chance of Jets1in, who started it, expressing a view? I believe he works in the oil industry.
Richard.
Any chance of Jets1in, who started it, expressing a view? I believe he works in the oil industry.
Richard.
02 July 2001, 09:11 AM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Sir,
Oil coolers it was and I do hope someone
turns it towards installing one on a road car
used on a daily basis with air con.
The car above being an Impreza Turbo offcourse....
Thank you all
Oil coolers it was and I do hope someone
turns it towards installing one on a road car
used on a daily basis with air con.
The car above being an Impreza Turbo offcourse....
Thank you all
02 July 2001, 04:35 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jets1in - come on!
We're waiting for your next post.
OK. Bet you asked the question just to put everyone right after they'd aired their opinions, so what is it you want to say...?
(That should be provokative enough
)
Simen
[This message has been edited by SSE (edited 02 July 2001).]
We're waiting for your next post.
OK. Bet you asked the question just to put everyone right after they'd aired their opinions, so what is it you want to say...?
(That should be provokative enough
) Simen
[This message has been edited by SSE (edited 02 July 2001).]
02 July 2001, 07:52 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If this is the same Jets1n who said that if you used Polyol Esther oil (eg Silkolene) in your engine after using non-polyol esther oil (eg Mobil 1, Castrol RS etc) it would turn to sludge and wreck your engine, then I would take anything he says with a grain or two of salt!
No offence Jets
[This message has been edited by PeteT (edited 02 July 2001).]
No offence Jets
[This message has been edited by PeteT (edited 02 July 2001).]
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
28
28 December 2015 11:07 PM
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
12
18 November 2015 07:03 AM