Bryan

I am still looking for a fully synthetic oil for my my00 turbo which is up for service on Monday 12th feb. On going into Halfords today to purchase 4.5l of Mobile one motorsport 15w-50 I noticed that Halfords do their own Fully synthetic oil 5w-40 and its quite cheap!. Anyone know who supplies Halfords with their oil ???.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Bryan
This was the subject of a previous thread. At that time no one seemed to know the supplier. I may be going to my local Halfords in a while, if I remember I`ll ask someone (I bet nobody has a clue!)
Cheers JohnD

Andrew Timmins

Comma make Halfords own brand oils. I've used Comma 5W/40 in the past with no problems. If you want to save a bit more money Motorworld and Charlie Browns sell Comma 5W/40 for £21 instead of £25 for the Halfords version.

brickboy

Sounds cool -- good information

Andrew Timmins

Comma are owned by Esso and this oil is also sold as Esso Ultron.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Andrew
If its true what you say about Halfords/Comma/Esso it just goes to show how we are ripped off! Halfords - £21 for 5ltrs.,Esso Ultron - £32 for 4ltrs!!
Have you got absolute, indisputable, would I lie to you sir proof of the Comma/Esso connection? if so it could mean a trip to Charlie Browns for Comma, or Halfords for-err,Halfords.
There seems so much snobbery when it comes to oil? I`ve been using Valvoline 5/50 full synthetic at under £20 for 4ltrs.
Is Mobil 1 really worth over ten quid more??
JohnD

brickboy

JohnD, the answer is .... probably not. Go by the ratings on the back, if it's API SJ and ACEA A3 (98) then it more than fulfils the standards req'd by Subaru. By the way, where are you getting that Valvoline synth for less than £20? It's £25 round here!

Andrew Timmins

This proves the links between the companys at least. And yes we are being ripped off.

Shimster

I've just changed my oil to the Comma fully synthetic oil, and it seems to run much better/smoother. I used the Shell Helix semi-synth before and was getting very load tappets on a cold start-up. The Comma oil seems to have almost stopped this as well, all for less money and the 5ltrs is the correct quantity!
Alex

Ken E

I just got 4 litres of Chevron 5w40 fully synthetic oil from Costco for about £11. It's API SJ and seems to do the job. It's alongside the Mobil 1 that is about £25.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

brickboy
I got the Valvoline Synpower 5w/50 from Burton power, just down the road from me in Ilford (on the A12) try

JAMES.M.

Err, brickboy the answer is yes to the connection issue.
You can also add Mobil into the company link aswell, and Comma brought out a 0/40 not so long ago! Funny that eh!
Oh and Graham Goodes own full synth' 5/40 is syner-g/ultron aswell.
There is an awfull lot snobbery in oil buying, but people have to have there labels!!!!
....JAMES

Andrew Timmins

James.M

Thanks for the additional confirmation. I didn't bother to mention the Mobil side of things as it is much more recent and may have lead people to think that all these oils may be repackaged Mobil 1. Though this could be a possibility for the future if they had the capacity to produce enough oil from just one source.

Edited to add:
I was only considering the Comma 5W-40 which has been available for a few years. Mentioning their newer 0W-40 is an excellent point I hadn't considered, did this come out after the Mobil Exxon merger?

[This message has been edited by Andrew Timmins (edited 27 February 2001).]

RaymondH

Quote: 'There is an awfull lot snobbery in oil buying, but people have to have there labels!!!!'

I'm not too sure that I agree with that, James. I buy Mobil because of it's reputation and can remember when Comma was a dirt cheap oil sold at Woolworths and which I wouldn't put in my lawn mower but no doubt things have moved on a bit since then!! I have also read articles in motoring magazines which said that you get what you pay for and where 2 oils may meet specifications the more expensive one will be in better condition than the cheaper one after several thousand miles. However, I am also aware that a manufacturer will also sell his product for as much as he can get for it!! I still feel happier putting an oil renowned for it's high quality in my car and my perception is that Comma is not up there with Mobil and Halfords is somewhere in between. As I say, that is my perception and I will take a lot of convincing otherwise.

Raymond.

brickboy

JamesM -- wot I meant was, Mobil1 probably isn't worth the extra tenner ... a mate works in the brewing trade, and it's interesting who brews beer for who, I suppose the oil industry's exactly the same!

Moss

Everyone has their favourites. What ever the differences are (if any) between oils of the same API spec it will be small. The most important factor is to change oil regularly. In other words, a cheaper (Comma) oil changed every 3500 miles will be better for your engine than using Mobil 1 and changing it every 7K (for roughly the same cost). I'd rather take the cheap oil, changed often route - but that's only my opinion!

scoobysnacks

Hi all,

My car's due for a service in the next couple of weeks but I'm a bit confused about the 'oil thing'. It's an MY98 WRX with about 48k miles on the clock and is suffering a bit of piston slap. Any recommendations? Also can someone explain the difference between 5w/50, 5w/40, 10w/40 etc etc. I guess it's due to viscosity but need enlightenment. I believe my car's currently got semi-synthetic 10w/40 in it.

[This message has been edited by scoobysnacks (edited 28 February 2001).]

xyzpaul

My attitude is that as I'm sticking 50 quid of petrol in the car every week, why worry about spending 50 quid on oil every 6 months...

brickboy

Scoobysnacks, here's what the viscosity numbers mean. Take a 10W40 oil. The "10" represents the oil's relative viscosity (i.e. how thick it is) when cold. The "40" represents its viscosity when at normal working engine temp, i.e. the oil appears to be thicker.

So a 0W40 oil is as thick as a 10W40 when hot, but a bit thinner when cold. A 15W50 is a bit thicker when cold, and also when hot.

Someone else may be able to explain exactly what the numbers represent, but I do know that a 0W40 oil is only a little bit thinner and easier-flowing than say a 10W40, and a 15W50 is only a little bit thicker.

The wisdom seems to be use a 5W40 or 10W40 for "road" use and 15W50 for heavy / track use.

The Woodman

Scoobysnacks,

To put it in layman's terms...

The first number is the winter (W) viscosity. Smaller number the thinner the oil at cold temperatures (start-up and warm-up). A 10W oil is perfectly fine for normal UK temperatures in winter( down to -12C). If you do a lot of short journeys from cold a 5W would be better.

Sexcond number is hot viscocity. Again smaller number thinner oil. Choose a 50 or 60 here if you thrash the car, get the engine hot or drive in a hot country. A 40 is generally OK for UK, particularly winter. Track use always go for the 50 or 60.

Therefore your 10W40 oil is about right for a good engine in average (normal) conditions.

Andrew Timmins

The first number(the w viscosity) is measured at 40C the second number is viscosity at 100C.

Pour point is a better measure of how an oil will cope with cold starts in winter. Both mobil 1 0W-40 and 15W-50 pour at below -54C.

JAMES.M.

Hi all.
Andrew, Yes the 0/40 syner-z came out at about the same time as the merger, but i cant confirm if its the same contents (yet).

Brickboy, sorry i misunderstood what you were saying i stand corrected.

Andrew, if you knew for a fact that the contents were the same in comma as in esso/mobil etc, would you still buy the more expensive? I do see what you are saying though Comma's old reputation does then no favours to those who remember it.

Moss, I think the same as you. I have tried most oil on the market in this car and i realy can't tell the difference(Have done no track use though). I now use Comma Euro-lite which is a semi synth 'J' spec 10/40 with friction modifiers added very much like Castrol Magnatec, and its about a tenner a gallon!

You also might be interested to know that Duckhams and Castrol have also merged recently.
Im off now, i won't be able to reply as im off to Tenerife tomorrow .
...JAMES.

Moss

Just to clear this viscosity thing up and to bore you silly…

Andrew – I think you might mean pumping rather than pouring?

The W grade is obtained by two tests:

1. Low temperature cranking viscosity (cP) at temp ©
2. Low temperature pumping viscosity (cP) at temp © with no yield stress

(Temp not constant. Viscosity constant.)

Other tests for hot grades are:

3. Kinematic Viscosity (cSt) at 100C minimum
4. Kinematic Viscosity (cSt) at 100C max
5. High shear viuscosity (cP) at 150C and 10 to the power of 6 seconds squared per minute

Here is a table taken from Caltex (Australia) for W grades:
(Pumping is the useful figure for cold starting

SAE Low Temp cranking Low Temp pumping
0W 3250 at -30C 60 000 at –40C
5W 3500 at –25C 60 000 at –35C
10W 3500 at –20C 60 000 at –30C
15W 3500 at –15C 60 000 at –25C
20W 4500 at –10C 60 000 at –20C


The high shear viscosity is the important element in hot grade:

SAE High shear viscosity (150C)
/20 2.6
/30 2.9
/40 2.9
/50 3.7
/60 3.7

Notice the big jump between 40 and 50 grades, the rest are very close. So your 50 or 60 grade is best for hard/prolonged high speed driving.

NDT

Even if the base oils are the same, the additive pack could well be different.....
The economies of scale the oil companies would be trying to get at would be more to do with the base oils anyway.
Nick

scoobysnacks

Getting confused...

Power Engineering say:

'The only oil recommended for this engine. Special formulation 15W-50 from Mobil means perfection for the Subaru engine.'

So, should I use this instead of the 10w/40 semi-synthetic oil recommended by Subaru then?

Would the slightly thicker 15W-50 oil be better for an engine that's suffering piston slap when cold? The car is used 'normally' ie no track days and a mixture of short and long journeys.

Moss

The real answer to piston slap is to get it fixed. Changing the oil will only hide the symptoms - which isn't going to do you any good in the long run??

Andrew Timmins

Moss,

Very useful info there, thank you.

I did mean pour point though, as this is what is listed on the product data sheets. Follow this link to look at the data sheets for all the Mobil oils.

Pete Croney

Scoobysnacks... you would have to ask yourself whether Subaru or Power Engineering know best, when it comes to oil.

Personally, I would use a 10w/40 or better, a 10w/50

scoobysnacks

Getting it fixed is not really an option at the moment because it's too expensive. Also, my car is running fine and doesn't seem to be burning any oil. I've been advised to take a look at it at a later date when the mileage is much higher because it's not a serious matter (despite what some people think). I guess I'll find out over the next few years...
But back to the oil thing, are Subaru or Power Engineering right about the best oil to use???

Edited because I've Just seen you reponse Peter, thanks.
What is your view on the piston slap thing? Have you seen it lead to serious engine failure or do you think it would?

[This message has been edited by scoobysnacks (edited 01 March 2001).]

Shimster

I topped up my oil on a cold morming the other day(approx. -4C)and noticed how thick the semi-synth. Shell 10W40 was! How long will it take for this stuff to get around the engine.
I since changed to the Comma 5W40 and it was still very runny at these temperatures (not very technical I know).
What is better for the same budget, the expensive semi-synth., or the Comma fully synth?
I have since met a number of scooby owners who have used the Comma oil without any obvious problems.
Alex