Sam Elassar

will i benfit from using a wide range lambda sensor intsead of the oem one ? i know the link that i have support this, but is there a certain type that's suitable or anyone will do.
will i get more consistant readings with the wide range one ?
ps are selling one for not so much money

any help will be appreciated

cheers

sam

johnfelstead

I aint touching this one!

and it's a LAMBDA sensor

Sam Elassar

why john ?

all i need is a little advice regarding the difference between the two. surely you use a wide range in your rally cars. so why do you have it ? is only only because the standard oem one can't read above a certain boost limit ? i think it is 18psi for the subaru one. so if i am not runing more than 18psi then there no use. or is there other advantages ?

sam

johnfelstead

sorry, nothing personal, do a search for LAMBDA sensor and i am sure you will understand

we dont use Lambda sensors on our rally cars.
The lambda on my westie is a standard one, and that only gets read below 2000rpm, after that its ignored.

Its also ignored on high throttle openings as its there just to keep emisions under control for iddle really.

Bob Rawle

Sam you seem to be confusing lambda (oxygen) sensor which produces an output according to the oxy content of the exhaust gas and MAP sensor which produces an output according to boost pressure.

Bob

Sam Elassar

Bob ooops. just a little slip

the reason i asked is when i was at PS to get the Pump steer done in the way to brands. Power station told me how they mapped all the cars using one of these Bosch wide range lambda sensors which they can get for £140. and how the link does not support this but their Motec can. So I was wondering could the link utilise one of these ? as it appear to have the facility to read a VHIGH (555)very high range "RACE" version (300kPa) . And if it does will I benefit from it. I.e. will I be able to fine tune the map better under full load?
some threads on this BBS late last year suggested that the OEM lambda sensor is not as accurate as one of these wide range ( or is it wide band ? ) sensor on full load. so is it worth while getting one of these.
anyone on this board using one of these with the link ?


Sam

AlexM

Sam,

You're still confusing the Lambda sensor with the MAP sensor. The zone you refer to is setting the scaling for the MAP sensor output - i.e. 300Kpa is 2bar boost absolute.

Talk to Bob regarding which Lambda sensor to use with the Link if you're thinking of changing from the standard type, as it needs to be one which the Link supports in order to correctly 'interpret' it's output.

The problem with the Standard Lambda sensor is that it is not completely temperature compensated, and so starts to read lean as it heats up. This in turn causes the engine to run too rich, which is bad for economy and performance.

I think for this reason BRD recommend only using the Lambda sensor to set the map up, and then running open loop from then on, i.e. Map using short WOT bursts to avoid overheating the sensor and getting an inaccurate reading while mapping.

Talk to Bob, there may be a better sensor available as an aftermarket part and he will have been there/done that.

Rgds,

Alex

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Of course the same problem regarding the lambda heating up applies to a wide range sensor too - I believe that there are sensors with temperature compensation but these are very expensive.

Bob should be able to confirm the ability of the LINK v MotEC in utilising such a sensor. I would hate to put words in his mouth, however when I discussed this with him there was not a convincing argument for using the wide range sensor. Also they don't last very long.

BTW Have you discovered the secret regarding LINK Mapping of fuel. Mail me, we ain't spoken for a while!

R

Bob Rawle

Link can be used with Wide range, narrow band or even the Motec Wide band meter if necessary. There is no temperature compensation in the sensor itself (wide and narrow band)and Motec meter compensates for temp.
Its just a matter of using the right technique acording to the sensor used. I have mapped with all three types and there is not much difference in the outcome. I actually prefer to use the Haltech wide range set up to the Motec wide band despite the lack of temperature compensation. (alot cheaper as well)
Given the knowledge that the sensor is affected by temperature then its important to allow for that in the mapping process. Even using a temperature compensated sensor is no guarentee, especially if the car is set up totally on the rollers as air temperature affects density and afr. So allowances always have to be made for local conditions on the day.

I'm sure that P-S did not mean to imply that Link is restricted to narrow band, both narrow and wide range sensors plug straight in, Motec meter output can also be used. 4 wire sensors are useable as is and the ecu is plenty fast enough to use the extra speed of reaction that the wide range can afford. Pat H used a Bosch wide range item (same as P-S mention) with his Link and I use the NTK 4 wire wide range with both my Link and Motec.

The Motec and Pectel both have some sort of auto tune feature but Link also has this. I just don't use it prefering to map manually according to conditions on the day. I've also mapped my Motec this way and its no more difficult than Link. Its true that senors do not last that long, typically 500 hours or so. After/approaching that time sensor output degrades, the factory ecu relies on the sensor to modify fueling under cruise conditions, a car with a faulty sensor will run very rich causing other problems if not replaced. The factory ecu will not diagnose a faulty sensor until its too late.

R ... don't give it all away .. we need to keep an edge somewhere, or maybe its worth publicising as its definately one up for Link over Motec !!

Sam Elassar

sorry guys
i have made a completely confused every body here by mixing up the map and lambda sensor thing. :hide head : : invent a time machine :.

i was only referring to the lambda sensor.

bob
when you say 500hrs are you taking about the standard one as well or the wide range one only ?


rannoch

please tell me tell me tell me. : repeat :

sam