Boost Controller
15 October 2000, 01:14 PM
#1
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I am thinking about getting a turbo boost controller for my 5 door MY98 does anybody know anything about them. Also dump valves, which one is best and do they give any added BHP of is it just a noise thing.
Cheers
Scruff.
Cheers
Scruff.
16 October 2000, 07:32 AM
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Boost controller not recommeded as your Air-Fuel mappings of the stock ECU may not cope. Also, increase boost does not always equate to increase power as there is a certain optimum flow rate depending on the turbo size/specs.
As for dump value, the stock one since MY 98 is very effective and not recommended. Moreover, dumping to atmosphere will affect the readings fed back into the ECU giving you power loss. The only gain the the Wooshhh sound effects!
Better to tune handling, exhaust & intake first.
Cheers
As for dump value, the stock one since MY 98 is very effective and not recommended. Moreover, dumping to atmosphere will affect the readings fed back into the ECU giving you power loss. The only gain the the Wooshhh sound effects!
Better to tune handling, exhaust & intake first.
Cheers
16 October 2000, 09:35 AM
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Thanks for the prompt reply Seraph.
Are you saying start with an induction kit and exhaust system, if so what kit has been known to give best results. Please excuse if these questions seem silly but this is totally new to me. It is my first turbo car, previously it was a line of Civics including a quite quick SiR Vtec.
Cheers
Scruff
Are you saying start with an induction kit and exhaust system, if so what kit has been known to give best results. Please excuse if these questions seem silly but this is totally new to me. It is my first turbo car, previously it was a line of Civics including a quite quick SiR Vtec.
Cheers
Scruff
16 October 2000, 09:47 AM
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Hi Scruff,
I disagree with seraph. I have an MY98 with HKS exhaust/filter/frontpipe and EVC4 electronic boost controller and I think it's a fantastic piece of kit. My 98 car suffered terribly from overboost. What seraph says about air/fuel ratio is true if you want to run silly boost, ie. over 1.2bar on a uk car with standard pistons. Up to 1.2bar the standard ECU should cope fine as the standard safety limit cuts in around this level so it has to be able to cope+ the fact that the standard eCU is self compensating to a degree. The knock sensor will look after ignition timing and the MAF etc should look after fuelling. The UK Impreza also tends to run rich so although you could gain more by having it re-mapped to run leaner you'll also compromise reliability to a degree.
I run my boost controller at 1.15bar to be on the safe side and it controls the boost much better than the stock controller. On the rolling road the car made 286bhp which gives you some idea of what sort of power the car is running, it certainly feels fast on the road.
If you run a search on this BBS for boost controllers or HKS EVCIV then you should find some more info.
Nito
I disagree with seraph. I have an MY98 with HKS exhaust/filter/frontpipe and EVC4 electronic boost controller and I think it's a fantastic piece of kit. My 98 car suffered terribly from overboost. What seraph says about air/fuel ratio is true if you want to run silly boost, ie. over 1.2bar on a uk car with standard pistons. Up to 1.2bar the standard ECU should cope fine as the standard safety limit cuts in around this level so it has to be able to cope+ the fact that the standard eCU is self compensating to a degree. The knock sensor will look after ignition timing and the MAF etc should look after fuelling. The UK Impreza also tends to run rich so although you could gain more by having it re-mapped to run leaner you'll also compromise reliability to a degree.
I run my boost controller at 1.15bar to be on the safe side and it controls the boost much better than the stock controller. On the rolling road the car made 286bhp which gives you some idea of what sort of power the car is running, it certainly feels fast on the road.
If you run a search on this BBS for boost controllers or HKS EVCIV then you should find some more info.
Nito
16 October 2000, 10:19 AM
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Nito
I would carry a sturdy box in the boot if using one of these, some of the engine parts may be re-usable when it lets go. (no smilies!)
Virtually every car we have swapped/re-built engines for this year has had one of these god forsaken devices fitted.
I'll use caps lock as I can't change font size...
THE STANDARTD ECU CANNOT RELIABLY TIME/FUEL THIS MUCH BOOST.
Boost controllers will hold the dialled in figure up to the red line, whereas the ECU knows that it will never see more than 0.8 bar over 6000 rpm.
But... they all go very well until they blow up
If you want to use one of these (and I have one here which is free to anyone who would be so foolish), then think of the cost being approx £3500, not £300.
I would carry a sturdy box in the boot if using one of these, some of the engine parts may be re-usable when it lets go. (no smilies!)
Virtually every car we have swapped/re-built engines for this year has had one of these god forsaken devices fitted.
I'll use caps lock as I can't change font size...
THE STANDARTD ECU CANNOT RELIABLY TIME/FUEL THIS MUCH BOOST.
Boost controllers will hold the dialled in figure up to the red line, whereas the ECU knows that it will never see more than 0.8 bar over 6000 rpm.
But... they all go very well until they blow up
If you want to use one of these (and I have one here which is free to anyone who would be so foolish), then think of the cost being approx £3500, not £300.
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16 October 2000, 11:55 AM
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Hi Pete,
I appreciate what you're saying but the boost controller doesn't hold the boost at exactly that figure to the redline, (not the HKS one at any rate, at least not with the standard uk turbine) it tails off to around 1bar long before the redline. The holed piston you showed me was running 1.28bar. Mine runs 1.15 peak/held but it does tail off. There are no spikes of overboost with the boost controllers either.
On the rolling road fuelling was over rich all the way to the redline and ignition timing was as far advanced as possible with no previous errors on the select monitor. This run was also in the middle of summer last year.
I'm sure on an sti the boost controller wouldn't be a good idea without a remap but I'm perfectly happy with the way mine is and has been running. Obviously it's easy and tempting to be too greedy with boost but runnning 1.15bar is perfectly sensible afaic. I'm sure that none of the cars you've rebuilt were running at this level of boost and all much higher (whether for just a short period of time or constantly). I've seen people mentioning boost figures on here that make me wince time and time again. What concerns me more are the amount of remapped cars running well in excess of 17.5psi (1.2bar).
If the engine does let go, you'll be one of the first to know, but in the meantime after much hard driving/trackdays/45,000 mixed miles and running on super it's not missed a beat. It's probably worth mentioning that standard uk cars have no problem running this boost under their own steam hence the overboost problem. My car kept trying to boost to 1.35bar with the standard boost solenoid. I'm sure there are many standard cars here running over 1 bar of boost and I'm sure your own car runs close to that figure. When I say 1.15bar that is the absolute maximum the boost controller will allow, it holds this figure smoothly but gradually tails down. I'd be more than happy to test this on the road with the select monitor plugged in.
Regards,
Nito
ps Scruff....if it's a decent one take Pete up on his generous offer and run it sensibly and you should be fine, at least for 45,000miles at any rate! :-)
I appreciate what you're saying but the boost controller doesn't hold the boost at exactly that figure to the redline, (not the HKS one at any rate, at least not with the standard uk turbine) it tails off to around 1bar long before the redline. The holed piston you showed me was running 1.28bar. Mine runs 1.15 peak/held but it does tail off. There are no spikes of overboost with the boost controllers either.
On the rolling road fuelling was over rich all the way to the redline and ignition timing was as far advanced as possible with no previous errors on the select monitor. This run was also in the middle of summer last year.
I'm sure on an sti the boost controller wouldn't be a good idea without a remap but I'm perfectly happy with the way mine is and has been running. Obviously it's easy and tempting to be too greedy with boost but runnning 1.15bar is perfectly sensible afaic. I'm sure that none of the cars you've rebuilt were running at this level of boost and all much higher (whether for just a short period of time or constantly). I've seen people mentioning boost figures on here that make me wince time and time again. What concerns me more are the amount of remapped cars running well in excess of 17.5psi (1.2bar).
If the engine does let go, you'll be one of the first to know, but in the meantime after much hard driving/trackdays/45,000 mixed miles and running on super it's not missed a beat. It's probably worth mentioning that standard uk cars have no problem running this boost under their own steam hence the overboost problem. My car kept trying to boost to 1.35bar with the standard boost solenoid. I'm sure there are many standard cars here running over 1 bar of boost and I'm sure your own car runs close to that figure. When I say 1.15bar that is the absolute maximum the boost controller will allow, it holds this figure smoothly but gradually tails down. I'd be more than happy to test this on the road with the select monitor plugged in.
Regards,
Nito
ps Scruff....if it's a decent one take Pete up on his generous offer and run it sensibly and you should be fine, at least for 45,000miles at any rate! :-)
16 October 2000, 02:11 PM
#9
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Replacing the standard fitted dump valve with a Class A dump valve will make a difference.
A dump Valve will help smooth out gear changes. My local dealer expained the gains. Like most dealers they can't supply Dump Valves but can fit them if you get one.
A new Dump Valve has been realised. You can change the setting and parts yourself as to give it different sounds. From a subtle whoosh to a rally sounding hear I am whoosh.
A dump Valve will help smooth out gear changes. My local dealer expained the gains. Like most dealers they can't supply Dump Valves but can fit them if you get one.
A new Dump Valve has been realised. You can change the setting and parts yourself as to give it different sounds. From a subtle whoosh to a rally sounding hear I am whoosh.
16 October 2000, 04:44 PM
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I run an APEXi Boost controller and Fuel control units which allow me to have low boost settings (10PSI) and a high setting which was mapped to 18PSI.
Previous sillyness with a bleed valve resulted in an expensive mistake (knackered piston) but which the apexi there are NO spikes. It either holds 10PSI or 18PSI dead on.
The system compensates fuel for the increased boost, and was set up so that pinking does not occur on SUL.
Its a 94 UK model running Cosworth Pistons.
I changed the std dump valve on mine with an atmospheric syle valve which I think has reduced lag.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by Blackscooby (edited 16 October 2000).]
Previous sillyness with a bleed valve resulted in an expensive mistake (knackered piston) but which the apexi there are NO spikes. It either holds 10PSI or 18PSI dead on.
The system compensates fuel for the increased boost, and was set up so that pinking does not occur on SUL.
Its a 94 UK model running Cosworth Pistons.
I changed the std dump valve on mine with an atmospheric syle valve which I think has reduced lag.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by Blackscooby (edited 16 October 2000).]
16 October 2000, 06:04 PM
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Pete Croney,
If you are serious about giving the hks away then could i have it please.
I have just got a computer and on the internet,this site is great and havin looked at various stories it seems like you know what your on about,i see you dont do any chips,boost etc do you think this is not wise.this is my 2nd impreza i was running 2 psi over standard 30k no problems but with a bleed valve and this was a bit crude,overboost sometimes,i guess an ebc should eliminate this and as i have 2 years warranty im ok about it.it has a scoobysport backbox,so i was told and some very bright spots as well.
I never knew the impreza was so popular,you just dont see them about,guess i was wrong.
thanks Pete
If you are serious about giving the hks away then could i have it please.
I have just got a computer and on the internet,this site is great and havin looked at various stories it seems like you know what your on about,i see you dont do any chips,boost etc do you think this is not wise.this is my 2nd impreza i was running 2 psi over standard 30k no problems but with a bleed valve and this was a bit crude,overboost sometimes,i guess an ebc should eliminate this and as i have 2 years warranty im ok about it.it has a scoobysport backbox,so i was told and some very bright spots as well.
I never knew the impreza was so popular,you just dont see them about,guess i was wrong.
thanks Pete
23 October 2000, 10:15 AM
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Pete Crooney, If (and I quote Seraph)"dumping to atmosphere will affect the readings fed back into the ECU giving you power loss...." is correct 1)why do so many people still use them?
My blitz one sounds good and is not too over the top and there is no lag on gear change at all.
Cheers
Trev.
My blitz one sounds good and is not too over the top and there is no lag on gear change at all.
Cheers
Trev.
23 October 2000, 11:28 AM
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I must admit I thought the Dump valve dumped to the air box. This would put pre-heated/lower-density air into the airflow, giving all sorts of minor problems from variable density air to temperature issues in the airflow.
BUT these would be fairly minor and only affect the ECU on gear changes (the most difficult time anyway...), but would be hard to program for...
This is fine on a road car, but for race you want a level playing field, so that counts us-lot out!
The end result of a atmospheric dump valve would be a more stable induction (giving pos better gearchanges and upsetting the ECU less) and more noise - mostly noise... Depends what you want I suppose!
BUT these would be fairly minor and only affect the ECU on gear changes (the most difficult time anyway...), but would be hard to program for...
This is fine on a road car, but for race you want a level playing field, so that counts us-lot out!
The end result of a atmospheric dump valve would be a more stable induction (giving pos better gearchanges and upsetting the ECU less) and more noise - mostly noise... Depends what you want I suppose!
24 October 2000, 05:33 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by tizard99:
<B>Pete Crooney, If (and I quote Seraph)"dumping to atmosphere will affect the readings fed back into the ECU giving you power loss...." is correct 1)why do so many people still use them?
My blitz one sounds good and is not too over the top and there is no lag on gear change at all.
[/quote]
Hi Trev,
If you're still running the standard ECU (meaning fuelling is dependant on AFM, not MAP), running an atmo BOV will cause a momentary overrun during gear shifts, cos the engine suddenly runs rich. Having tried it on various cars, I have to say some cars react more adversely to it than others, but overall the difference is very slight. Do you get ***** of flame shooting out of your exhaust once in a while? With the aftermarket BOV, mine does....
Best regards.
<B>Pete Crooney, If (and I quote Seraph)"dumping to atmosphere will affect the readings fed back into the ECU giving you power loss...." is correct 1)why do so many people still use them?
My blitz one sounds good and is not too over the top and there is no lag on gear change at all.
[/quote]
Hi Trev,
If you're still running the standard ECU (meaning fuelling is dependant on AFM, not MAP), running an atmo BOV will cause a momentary overrun during gear shifts, cos the engine suddenly runs rich. Having tried it on various cars, I have to say some cars react more adversely to it than others, but overall the difference is very slight. Do you get ***** of flame shooting out of your exhaust once in a while? With the aftermarket BOV, mine does....
Best regards.
24 October 2000, 10:28 AM
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Personally I don't think an aftermarket dump valve is worth it on a 97 on car. On my old MY95 the HKS Sequential dump valve seemed to maje a noticeable difference to performance but I wasn't keen on the noise, maybe coz it was running nanny boost!! On my current MY98 I recently tried the HKS SSQV (super sequential) and I didn't think it drove as well (seemed a little rougher between gearchanges). It definatley ran richer as the car was popping and spitting everywhere, the noise was very nice too (particularly with the optional purple fin) but when I looked at fuel consumption (70 miles to half a tank) I removed it there and then! I don't think it's necessary unless you're running major boost. I'll try the dump valve again when I try out my new turbo and FMIC!!
Regards
Nito
Regards
Nito
24 October 2000, 01:53 PM
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Gunna
Sorry for the delay in replying. Of course you can have it. Give me a call so I can arrange delivery 01268 590085.
Trev
Do a search on dumpvalves. The why's and wherefor's have been discussed at great length. We sell VTA's but recommend you use a recirc if you are still using the MAF sensor (ie standard ECU).
Sorry for the delay in replying. Of course you can have it. Give me a call so I can arrange delivery 01268 590085.
Trev
Do a search on dumpvalves. The why's and wherefor's have been discussed at great length. We sell VTA's but recommend you use a recirc if you are still using the MAF sensor (ie standard ECU).
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