pilch

Guys n gals;

I've just fitted the GGR K&N kit (very nice..) but now when I floor it I get a VERY sudden loss of power at 4K-5K. This is like a stall, but revs are OK. I thought of the MAF, but that is clean (checked myself). Is the MAF able to handle the extra air being pumped in? Throttle above 5K is fine and response is great. I have error codes 23, 24 and 31 in memory, but they could be from the previous IC.

Any thoughts? Email is fine.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Check out

Stef

Pilch.

What made you choose the GGR K&N rather than the standard K&N induction kit.
I'd be interested to know the differences between them, apart from the price that is!!!
I have the standard K&N kit, and have never had any probs at all.

Stef.

pilch

Rannoch, I don't actually get the codes whilst driving, but they are in memory, which I thought I had reset. It may be nothing. The car manages to stall every now and again though

Stef, I originally wanted the Blitz conical, but got the GGR K&N as my flamebox (yes, my car had one!) had a snapped pipe inlet. This was causing turbo problems and also the previously mentioned error messages I bet..

I'm still getting these problems today, so the ECU isn't able to adapt to it. Any ideas anyone???

very troubled pilch with whiplash

Wreckleford

What is a flame box

pilch

Its a mega-precaution thing you will never need. It sits between the intercooler and the MAF, and is a kidney-shaped box that just catches flames if they creep up the induction. There is an oil catch pipe on the bottom of this unit. Pretty useless piece of kit really

Btw - ta Chambo! U learn a new thing every day eh All I need now is a working car that does all RPM up to 7K!!!

MorayMackenzie

Peak torque, hence peak boost tends to arrive near the revs you mentioned. Do you have a boost gauge? If so what boost is it hitting at the cut? Is it only a problem in cold weather? It may just be the ecu boost limit cut coming in as the better breathing engine produces better boost. Happened with my STI 3 whith backbox and blitz!

It is posible to reduce the boost a little by enlarging a restrictor found in the turbo control piping. Don't try this unless you really know what you are doing!

Moray

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Phil,

how do you know you are not getting the codes whilst driving?

The only way would be to drive at over 11km/h with both the black and green connectors connected - and if you had done that it would have reset the memory (the only certain way that I know of - pause, wait for fuse box boys to give me abuse!)...


...and so if you had reset and the codes are still there, then you have a current problem.

However, given the codes, I have absolutely no idea what the problem is, although overboost sound pretty credible.

Cheers,

David

Pete Croney

The ECU records old codes and current codes. You can only remove old codes by doing a software reset, from the Select Monitor.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Emprical evidence suggest that Pete is absolutely correct in using the Select Monitor to reset the ECU memory...

...however empirical evidence also suggests that the MRT method also works.

In my own experience the MRT method will clear old codes, and if there is a current fault, will also advise you of the current fault. This is why, when you connect both the green and black connectors and then run the engine you need to be above 11km/h.

If you aren't you will get fault codes for the Speed Sensor and if you are stationary, a code for the Neutral sensor. When this first happened to me I was quite alarmed until I checked the codes.

If you got the MRT web site you will find a more detailed explaination. There is also a website that has been quoted here giving even more detail on utilising the fault code connectors.

So, whilst Pete refers to the official method, the alternative is utilised by dealers without a Select monitor.

Cheers,

David

pilch

Moray, yes I have a guage. I am peaking at 10psi, with -10psi on full idle. When I drive at -5psi for a few minutes on a 'sticky' engine (fully warmed!) I get a 'check engine' light. This is code 24; idle control solenoid (I think). It goes away if I drop to almost 0 revs, but the engine can stall if I rev then let it drop. This happens in ANY weather. The drop in power only happens at full throttle, if I apply 95% its OK. Weird eh? This particular problem has only come to light since the IC was fitted. I'm not going to start playing with boost control! PE can do that...

Rannoch, I reset the ECU as best I could, including both green wire method and disconnecting the battery. The light is out on startup, but when the engine gets hot it comes on (look at previous paragraph). I also get serious engine stutter when the light is on. If I clear it (again, see above) the engine is fine (except 100% throttle @ 4K problem). You are correct in that running above 11Kph will clear the current code, but I think Pete is right in that the memory still retains previous error conditions. If not, why do the codes remain when I remove the battery??

I have the car booked in (again!) at PE and will get a reset and full diag done on the rolling road. I challenge them to find the problem! (They missed the error code problem first time round!)

Cheers all, and come back with any more suggestions! (Buy another car...)

pilch

pat

Pilch,

Sounds like you have a couple of problems here...

a) the problems at around about 4k RPM are probably due to overboost. The pressure will build up and overshoot, the injectors / ignition whill shut down to protect the engine, the boost will drop a bit and then the system comes back to life. You can test this theory by acclerating steadily, rather than WOT and see what happens... it shouldn't do this... if this is the case then you may have some blockage in the wastgate control pipework or the actuator solenoid may be asticky... give them a good clean out.... IIRC carb cleaner works quite well.

b) You have an iffy ISC valve. This is causing the rough idle as the ECU cannot control airflow into the engine when the throttle butterfly is closed. Once again, a bit of carb cleaner should clear any cr*p out of the ISC (but it could be an electrical problem).

As for ECU resets... I'll be running a few tests on a JECS unit in the near future to characterise its behaviour under certain conditions... I'm reasonably confident that just powering down the ECU backup power supply will clear it.... I doubt that there's any NVRAM in there... of course using the Select Monitor will save you the trouble of powering it down :-)

Cheers,

Pat.

pilch

pat,

Your theory works. At 95% throttle there is no problem. I agree that there is a solenoid problem. From today the turbo is generating 15psi. Not good (depends how you look at it). It seems to be producing less power as well. The car is booked in for a ECU cap and check, so I'll report findings next weekend. Suppose I'll have to be careful until then

I understand what the problems should be with the turbo, but what of the error code 24 and stalling after idle throttle to 4K? Maybe an ECU reset will sort this.

Thanks all for help!

pilch

pat

Pilch,

Error code 24 is (IIRC) the ISC. This controls the idle, and if it's stuck it won't be able to... hence the car will either stall, or run at rather higher than expected RPM (eg 1500). I don't think that an ECU reset will clear this problem.

Cheers,

Pat.

pilch

Pat,

Thanks for the info. Is this for MY94 WRX import? If so, what are the IIRC and ISC, and where are they in the engine?

Cheers

pilch

pat

Pilch,

The info I have relates to the STi version, but the WRX is very similar, certainly from an electrical and control system point of view.

The "IIRC" isn't a car part, it's an abbreviation for "if I recall correctly". Basically just a shorthand for email and Usenet. There's plenty of them out there :-)

The "ISC" is, in this case, an engine part. It's the Idle Stabilisation Control (valve). To find it, open the bonnet and find the intake manifold (you can't really miss it!). Between it and the intercooler there is the throttle body. To the right of the throttle body, bolted onto the back of the manifold, is a device with another hose coming out of it. This is the ISC and it allows air to come from the resonator box (on the left of the car, between the air box and the turbo) into the maifold when the throttle butterfly is closed.

The ISC has three wires coming out of it, facing toward the front of the car... you could try removing the plug and sparying some contact cleaner in there just in case it is an electrical problem... if this does not help, you can remove the hose and squirt some carburettor cleaner into the ISC inlet pipe (it has a 90 degree bend in it), reattach the hose and fire it up. This should flush any cr*p out and free up the ISC again.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Pat.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Pilch,

the reason why the error codes remain after you disconnect the battery/fuse, is that this method does NOT reliably reset the ECU.

I know this might be controversial - but the bottom line is that only a very small amount of electricity is utilised maintaining the memory and capacitors on the ECU board will supply that power for a LONG time.

This is so a car can be serviced without losing it's memory and therefore needing to relearn fuel/driving conditions/style etc.

The length of time taken for the capacitors to discharge will vary due to the environmental conditions, etc, etc.

Your observations merely confirm that this is true.

If you utilise the green/black connector reset the existing codes are NEVER retained in the memory, although they will reappear if the car is faulty during the reset.

Good luck getting your motor fixed - if it is the ISC you WILL need a SELECT monitor to properly diagnose it.

Cheers,

David

pilch

Pat, I think I know what this ISC unit is. Does it look cylindrical, about 3 inches long, with 3 hoses attached, and is it mounted in front of the driver side suspension block? There is a hose that connects to the induction unit.

Rannoch, I tried resetting the ECU using your method, and everything seemed fine for about 30 mins. Then it reverted again. I definitely have a problem there somewhere! The engineers should be able to find it though.

Cheers guys!

pilch

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Pilch,

that is consistent - the reset merely wipes the memory, does not fix the fault - however it does indicate that

a) the method of memory clearing is reliable, and

b) you car is not well

Hope you get it fixed soon - we are all looking forward to what the problem is!

David

pilch

Rannoch (Dave, whatever!)

Yeah, so am I! I miss driving with a lead foot. I can only use 60% pressure now

Oh, and my intercooler hose keeps popping off. I replaced the hose with a solicone one, and had to cut the existing plastic unit to make a connector. Damned thing keeps warping and falling off! Not good when you put yer foot down and the car stops dead!

Cheers

pilch

MorayMackenzie

Pilch,

The ISC is on the top of the engine, as Pat explained. The stuff on the suspension turret includes the MAP sensor and the turbo wastegate control solenoid ( and the ignition amplifier on later cars ).

Just out of interest, where did you get the silicon hose kit from and why didn't it fit without changes? I have to get some hoses soon, so I would appreciate any help with which suppliers to avoid and which to use.

Moray

pilch

Moray,

Is that the grey plastic unit that controls idle, and is held down by two screws? This is to the left of the engine, on top of the manifold.

I bought my intercooler hose kit from Simon Chamberlain (hiya pisspot!) at GGR (01162 440080). My car is a MY94 WRX import, and the original hose was an all-in-one plastic affair. In order to fit the silicon hose in place of the existing hose, I had to cut the elbow section that connects to the base of the intercooler and jubilee the hose over the top. Simon assures me there is not a part that will replace this. I am sure there is something out there that will do the job. What MY is your car??

Simon @ GGR has a good selection of hoses in STi pink or a nice blue (which I have!) The induction kit is also blue hose, with a crimson elbow joint and flange. The conical filter is also red. My engine looks like Van Gogh went wild with a paintbrush! Sounds great though with the Blitz D2A TDV!

BTW, anyone played GT2 on PSX yet? I lurve the chirp they put on all the turbos! Even the STi has it (I wish).

Cheers

pilch

Trout

iTrader: (1)

GT2

The Evo VI has it in Mines form.

The STI has it, and great induction roar if you go and get it tuned with chip (non-PE) and big turbo. 383bhp and goes like the clappers - all turbo lag and then goes like stink.

Ian Cook has his tuned to 470bhp I think.

Great game!

David

pilch

Rannoch,

I've got an STi 5 Type R in GT2. Just saving for that turbo.. How come a car that comes without turbo can have a stage 1, and so can the Scooby etc? I would have thought the stage 1 was already supplied! Its not as if you're upgrading to turbo, is it?

Pat,

Gonna go have a look..

pilch

pat

Pilch,

the ISC is normally to the right of the engine... that is looking at it from the front rather then from the cabin. There will be a fat-ish pipe (15mm?) hose coming off it as well as one or two smaller ones. There will be a 3 wire plug on it, at the top, facing toward the front of the car.

Cheers,

Pat.

pilch

All,

I had the work done on my car, and have the following to report:

The amount of air being diverted out of the induction unit to the sensor was way below par. A 'restrictor' was placed inline to divert more of the airflow. This results in a more realistic driving experience! A nice side-effect is that I now run at 12psi boost as opposed to 10psi.

I still have the problem with error code 24 and the 'dipping throttle' at idle though

I also still have a problem with the hose popping off the intercooler. The only solution I can see is to pay th £97 for a replacement plastic hose and cut it in the middle of 'S' bend, then cut the silicone. Messy.

Cheers guys!

pilch