Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

As title suggests, has anyone swapped/upgraded their PPP or TEK2 ECU to a JB Tek2.5.

If so what gains did you notice ?

Pete Croney

Scott

We have done a few from Tek2 and from PPP. Its only worth doing if you have a full custom map done.

I'm sure JB would agree that there are gains from a better postal map, but they would not be as significant as those achievable by doing a full remap. If the car has a PPP a full fee is payable, if it has a Tek2, only the mapping is charged as the ECU already has an Ecutek License allocated to it.

On the PPP ECU, you will need to unsolder the piggy back boost controller fitted by Prodrive.

john banks

I would agree Pete. I think Scott given his background and expectations would benefit from a custom map. I can get more boost and leaner fuelling with some postal maps than others at the expense of ignition timing. I think Scott is trying to weigh up which he prefers. With custom mapping you can of course see how well the timing copes with extra boost, you can't send out a map with really aggressive timing, aggressive fuelling and boost through the post as some engines would not take it. For a lowest common denominator map you do end up having to slug something, no free lunch unfortunately.

People with decat Tek2/PPPs do email me and I say not to bother unless custom mapping, on the other hand I have done a few and most have reported small improvements, but we really are at the vary from car to car bit, hence the benefits of custom mapping.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

As John knows, I am trying to decide whether to go for a PPP (on an MY00) or a TEK2.5

Just trying to establish if there is much difference on the road between the 2.

[Edited by Scott.T - 19/06/2003 14:48:51]

brendy

Sorry to hicjack thread but as I bought a Tek1 a year ago - what would it cost to upgrade to a Tek 2 off the shelf as from what has been said above I already have bought the licence for the Tek software product.

Andy McCord

yes i 2 would be interested to know

T-uk

I have tried quite a few ecu combinations on my car. from standard my00 ae802,my99 ae800,ppp ecu (all with/without dawes),tek2,2.5 and 3.I have never used the dawes with any ecutek remap.

my99 ecu+dawes gave good performance, as good as ppp/tek2 without dawes. the knocklink was quiet on road use but could get a bit active on track, with the dawes holding so much boost.

comparing ppp ecu with tek2 they are very similar.

tek 2.5 was better still unless a dawes was on the ppp ecu but again the knocklink could get active on track.I would say the difference in performance(tek2.5 v ppp/tek2) was similar to a my00 ecu to my99 without a dawes or the my99 to a ppp ecu.

the tek3 gave very little to my car although it was still a small improvement. one very hot day on a twisty road the knocklink got active when I was out testing my new coilovers(read as brain out hooligan driving) so I ended up getting the ecu remapped back to tek2.5 spec and it has been fine since.

a possible reason for this is because it was my car that jb used to make the tek2.5. I wanted a bit more than a tek2 but a bit less than a tek3 for the track use. perhaps the tek2.5 was a bit closer to a tek3 on my car . with the coilovers and other suspension mods the stresses where probably higher due to braking later and getting on the power earlier in corners,also the revs are held higher in the bends too so thrash time is up . the car with standard suspension and tek3 was happy though.

Pete Croney

I'm not sure that a Tek1 actually has a license as its an 801 Subaru map, not an Ecutek map.

Each mapper will charge a different rate for upgrade work, so its best to speak to the mapper of your choice/area for a quote.

T-uk

I think the tek 1 does use a ecutek license as the map is slightly different. I am sure ecutek filled in a known lean-spot on the subaru map before calling it the tek1.

[Edited by T-uk - 19/06/2003 18:15:56]

Pieman2

Wouldn't bother. I did and although higher-speed performance was improved, at lower speeds (1st and 2nd gear) it wasn't. That said, John has very kindly offered to tweak my map if I can get up to him sometime.
However, I would expect a Tek 3 custom map to offer a significant improvement, especially if you have headers and uppipe.

john banks

Tek 1 does use an Ecutek license. It is actually slightly leaner on full load than AE800/1 and no lean spots have been filled in. The supposed lean spot everyone goes on about is not too bad at all on the standard car. It is not too torque killing until you fit an induction kit. People plot lambda voltage vs RPM and think that because it is zero during very early spool up that this is a massive lean spot. Not so, the lambda sensor response in this area is virtually vertical and about as non-linear as you could imagine, so a lambda voltage dip to zero during very low revs is not as dramatic as it sounds. With a car with improved breathing it is exacerbated and then you lose torque, but on the standard car I think it is about right for smooth spool up and economy. Subaru actually did a very good job IMHO of the AE800/1/2 ECUs when you consider the number of mods they can work with fairly well without blowing up the engine. I even saw a VF23 car with an APS induction kit running 1.2 bar held on an AE802 (WREXY ) that managed to sort out all the det in 30+C temps amazingly! It was lean and didn't have much torque but the ECU did a fine job considering what it had to work with.

We all slag off AE802 but the high octane ignition map is the same as the others and they have actually put in a sensible low octane map unlike most of the others, the fuel map is richer and the boost is more conservative, but using a boost controller without a map as a modders ECU if you are not going to remap it it is not a bad bet.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

T-UK,

As I have run an AE802, an AE801 and for a while an AE801 with FCD set to approx 1.1 bar. I think you may of sold me on the TEK2.5.

The AE801 was a good improvement on the AE802 and with the FCD it was good, but I could never be really sure whether it was detting or not.

So it sounds like the TEK2.5 is for me

midlife-crisis-scooby

Pete and John..

Slightly off thread but I have had an EcuTek remap twice (pre and post de-cat) for my MY02 WRX.....No problems and WELL PLEASED.

but..

I got a bit lost on the licence fee thing ????

does EcuTeK as a company have some sort of licence over my ECU (which I presume has a unique number) which they can revoke at some future date or sell-on rather like an e-mail address ??

Just curious as to what might happen in the future

Midlife....

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

T_Uk,

What does you boost gauge read at peak and held.

I know what is should read, but what does it actually read.

Cheers...

Pete Croney

Midlife

No, not at all. All maps carried out using the EcuTek system involve a license fee paid to EcuTek. But its only paid once.

If its a Tek map (a one size fits all, a bit like the PPP) then your tuner can recover the license and allocate a new custom map, without incurring a fresh license fee.

This only applies to Tek maps. PPP maps and custom maps cannot be remapped by someone else, to protect each mappers intellectual rights. That mapper can access ecu's registered to their dongle as many times as they like.

Andy McCord

So if i bought a secondhand ecu with the most basic map done to it (licence fee paid) then went in for a Tek3 would i have to pay the Tek licence fee again or not? if the answer is no i wouldnt have to pay the fee, would it work out financially cheaper or not?

midlife-crisis-scooby

Pete

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I remember "dongles" from my early days with various computer programs...I thought "dongles" had died a death long ago....

The reason I ask is that I still get an ECU fault from my de-cat MY02 with Nick's re-map for the cat being absent. I have a CEL module but still the CEL light comes on.

I have heard that the EcuTeK remap for the de-cat can force the ECU "ignore" the fault code (P0420 I think?) but wondered if doing this was a licencing problem which some mappers keep to themselves??

Thanks again

Midlife.....




[Edited by midlife-crisis-scooby - 6/25/2003 11:26:32 PM]

Pete Croney

Midlife

The very latest version on Flash2002 lets you reset the thresholds for the cat testing routines which eliminate the problem. Whoever did your map would probably reset the thresholds free of charge.

Andy

If you got the ecu for less than £300-£350 you would save money by doing it this way but someone selling a Tek2 this cheaply would be mad. Even Prodrive piggy backs go for this or more.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I now have a TEK2.5 and am considering getting DeltaDash, so that I can suply JB with some feedback for some possible tweeks.

Do you think this is worthwhile... just trying to justify £250 for a dongle and a S/W Liscense.

john banks

Scott, thanks for you email. I cannot reply because the webmail server is down today, I agree with your thoughts. Boost control is based around upgrading a car which is running spike free standard boost.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Looks to be sorted this morning, as took a couple of turns of the actuator.

I think I may get Deltadash so that we can have a closer look at the timing etc..etc..

I take it that with DeltaDash. I can kick it off, go for a run then look at the results to see what's going pink or Red .

If nothing on the timing map shows signs of knock, I spose I can put a couple of degree's advance on (using DeltaDash). Then try again !!

I have got a copy from the website, but I have not looked at it in detail yet. I've had it for a while but at the time I was more interested in getting the Pre96's remapped.

john banks

Scott, only the programming software colours the map, but the knock correction cannot always be trusted.

You can take off 5 degrees across the whole map in 1 degree steps but not advance the ignition. If you want to play with this I could set you up with an advanced ignition base map which you can retard from if you have a reliable method of detecting knock and monitoring it with a permanent visual display in car. If you are willing to use higher octane or water there could be nice gains.

The ECU remembers this adjustment until the ECU is disconnected or reset.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

John,

I've just spotted the lack of coloured graphs and Ignition Retard, so it's time for a rethink OR a Knocklink .

Overall I am pleased with the TEK2.5 performance, but I have a few idea's that I would like to put forward, once your email is up again.

Let me know when your back on-line and I'll mail you my thoughts.

P.S Am off to the Lakes V.Early tommorrow, so it might have to wait till Wednesday.

T-uk

sorry just see this again.

boost control with the 2port solenoid is an iffy subject IMO. on cold days the boost is higher than hot days. the dawes never really changed boost with temperature changes but I actually see this 2port feature as a saftey net. on a hot day I do not want my car boosting as high, I would rather loose a bit of performance than start detting.

I removed my boost gauge a month ago to replace it with an spa boost and fuel pressure one, but have not got round to fitting it yet.I have tried that many different things on my car I am struggling to recall the boost I used to see but it would be at least 2psi lower on a roasting hot day like today.

the thing with the tek2.5 or 3 over the ppp/tek2 is that peak power figures may not be much higher than each other, but on the road the useable rev range is fatter.

[Edited by T-uk - 6/26/2003 11:05:52 AM]

john banks

Scott, the email receives fine, just sending will be a problem until tonight. If you have a knocklink I can add more timing to the map. If you don't I can't add any more blind as some cars would det.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I'm searching for a Knocklink as we speek.

I'll mail you my idea's shortley.

Andy Hobson

Scott - do you have the capability to tweak John's map or are you relying on the built in ECU knock correction to tame an advanced ignition base map ?

Cheers,

Andy.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I have no ability as yet.
DeltaDash could do it for me, but I am a bit reluctant to pay out for it.
If I get a Knocklink, John will be able to tweak it for me.

Think of it as a personal Map, but with 500miles between us.

FYI I used to 'privatley' remap the Pre96 cars, and had an add in ScoobyShop. Since selling my MY94 this has stopped.
1. Due to selling the 'development' vehicle
2. Getting to many enquires from people wanting the world on a plate for £60.

David Wallis and Pavlo still do it tho'

John,

Boost is now 1.2BAR then heads towards 1.0BAR at high revs, so all seems O.K


[Edited by Scott.T - 6/26/2003 1:45:43 PM]

Andy Hobson

Thanks Scott. I'll check this with John for my Tek2.5.

Good luck with the map.

midlife-crisis-scooby

Pete

Thanks for the help re 2002 flash and the Cat problems. I'll get in touch with nick and ask his help.

Without going to the invoices I think I paid £550 (ish) for the first example map for my 02 and £100 to alter the map for the de-cat which I had done just after (Doh!!)

Cheers


Midlife.....