Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I have heard a few people are changing to other brands as they are limiting their top end power.

My question is, are they more suited to lower powered cars (say up to 350bhp)?

How are people getting on with them? What other mods are you running with the Pace FMIC?

Anyone running one with just a TD04 or even a VF23?

How do they compare say to the likes of APS, HKS, etc? (Other than not having to cut the bumper?)

All opinions welcome, just for research purposes at the moment!

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Andy, careful you'll get Christian on next offering to sell you his

Personally I'm not a fan of the Pace design, I think the core isn't efficient enough, with the gas speed too high and hence passing through without sufficient cooling.

I wasn't too fussed about cutting up the bumper to fit the HKS as at the end of the day a brand new bumper cover costs 250 quid from a Subaru main dealer so it's not the end of the world.

Plus I quite like the look of my cut up bumper

MorayMackenzie

Mind you, the Pace pipework is one hell of a lot less convoluted than the HKS stuff.

Mike555

Maybe a AVO fmic. I know you can buy it for 1700 AUD normally 2500 AUD. I have ordered one and the fiment is better then the HKS, less bumper cutting.


Mike

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Moray that is true, but can also be fixed it your prepared to play...personally I think Andy should hang on for a little while, well at least until he get's a proper turbo...who knows maybe he'd like a nice MD304/BT270

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

LOL!

I'm just looking at options!!!

Nothing fixed, but I know a few things!!!

I don't want to spend as much as last time
I only want reasonable power (no where near what I had - )
I need to learn how to drive!!!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Amazed Christian has not been along yet, unless he has sold the pace already?

Steven

pban

Andy

I have the APS which was a bugger to get on, was shyed away from the Pace by you know who, even though I could get it at a very good price. Pod turned up yet?

Paul

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

lol what are you lot like!! I am not a sales person :P

And for your information, I have already sold the pace fmic!

I am about to pop out now, busy with house moving, but if anyone is interested, I can post what I thought of the pace fmic later on.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

The APS I had previously was good, but then again I didn't fit it!!

Just wondered about the Pace, as I only want 300bhp or thereabouts!

Maybe I should look at uprated TMIC's!

[Edited by Andy Tang - 05/06/2003 10:59:30]

pban

Andy

Would be interesting to see how far a aftermaket TMIC could go before a FMIC is required. Like you say, with a maxiumum BHP in mind is there a TMIC that can do the jod adequately? I guess with limiting other components a FMIC can be overkill. There is always that little problem of "never being quite satisfied"

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I guess the problem would be spending all that cash on say a TMIC, and then thinking... hmmm I want more, then have to trash the lot and start again!!

I guess I would also need to find a cunning way to reduce heat soak as well!!

I guess I need to start lagging things!!! There's another thing to add to the list!!!

[Edited by Andy Tang - 05/06/2003 11:17:45]

T-uk

I looked at pace and really liked the fmic and pipes for my goal of 320bhp. the thing that put me off them was, I was told the water temp gets much higher with the smaller pace radiator, than if keeping the standard radiator, this will probably not be a problem if you do not track the car.

pban

Andy

True, that is the risk

Mate of mine is asking the same question though for a MY98 (UK) with link and full decat. Is his TD04 too small to really fill a FMIC, would he do better to stick with a uprated TMIC

[Edited by pban - 05/06/2003 11:21:52]

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

As a side issue, it's a UK car with air con. Is that an issue with the Pace kit??

I've heard about issues with the water temperature before!! Another reason why I shouldn't do it I guess!!

I want to start tracking the car, but not until I sort out the brakes!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Paul,

I guess you're friend could do a lot worse than swapping his intercooler for an STI5/6 one. Although he would need to swap his dump valve as well!

MorayMackenzie

What sort of water temp figures are we talking about here?

EvilBevel

Hey Andy, what exactly do you want to know ?

I have a Pace/VF23 combo.

About 320 BHP on a good day, and the Pace seems to do what it should do cooling wise for that kind of power. It may not be the best option above that.

Few points:

1)it didn't fit at all (was made on a 22B/MY98, and did not fit on my MY99. Bits of welding needed to make it fit, lots of hassle.
2) my experience with Pace wasn't very good communication wise (understatement) OTOH DocJock had some very good service buying it via Tuckshop (FWIW, hope this isn't against our core Scoobynet values)
3) water temps indeed get a bit higher, but nothing extreme. Not a real problem IMHO
4) I have aircon as well, no problem, there is even a support on the FMIC for the aircon rad
5) as Moray says, the pipework ain't that bad.
6) max inlet temp I've seen on track (1.3 bar max, 1.1 at 6500) was 45°C when ambient was 25° A lot better than with the TMIC, but I'm sure other makes will be even more sufficient ?

Don't regret my choice for the Pace, but don't know enough about the other FMIC's on sale to either advise pos. or neg.

HTH,

Theo

Adam M

when I fitted the pace kit originally, I noticed a change in water temps of about 2 to 4 degrees, and only having one fan at the time didnt help this problem when sitting in traffic.

The pace rad is smaller but it is alrso deepr, while this is less efficient it still is capable of cooling for the requirements of the car.

the pipework witht he pace is ally too, not the steel that comes with the hks, but I tend to agree with tim in that the core volume means gas speed through it does not give the charge enough exposure to the fins to give up enough of its heat.

Saying that, at max boost, charge temps never went above 36 degrees, and accroding to theory ideal temp for atomisation and hence combustion is 40.

christian is still managing 460bhp with his, so I wonder how far people want to go exactly.

I was disappointed when the thing was designed because pace chose to use the same core they made for their rs500s with adapted end cans to suit the pipe work.

The fact is the design freed up much more space than they took advantage of, so the core was always compromised from the beginning.

Now that I dont need to cut my bumper, I wouldn't consider the pace again, especially with aspirations of over 500lbfts.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Theo, I think you answered a lot of the questions I had in mind!

With me not being able to use a welder, I guess I should rule out the Pace (as I wanted to do the work myself!)

BTW, I think DocJock has a MY98, so should have had less hassle when getting his installed.

Adam, as a side issue I think you mentioned (God it must have been years ago now!) that Mark ran an MRT TMIC with good results. I assume that it was well over 300bhp (don't really need to know specifics) more the fact it can cope with say a slightly larger turbo than the TD04.

pban

Andy

He did suggest that he sourced a V5 intercooler, I talked him out of it thinking that he wants to do more in the future so would be a waist of money, I was also under the impression that there wouldn't be that much of a gain in charge temps, but the piping under the cooler was an improvement. Also I've just sold the intercooler from my STI 5 muppet

[Edited by pban - 05/06/2003 11:46:57]

EvilBevel

Well, the last thing I want to do is provide false info or slag of a company ...(I don't think Pace is on this BBS, so they can't reply) maybe they picked up on the changes between MY98/MY99 in the mean time ?

Perhaps ask Mike just to be sure?

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

No problem Theo! I'm awaiting a reply from Pace, but I've nearly decided to go the TMIC route!!

David_Wallis

Mark ran over 350bhp with the tmic IIRC.

with WI and Waterspray iirc.

David

[Edited by David_Wallis - 05/06/2003 12:48:09]

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

As did Trout who took on the MRT TMIC next

DocJock

I think DocJock has a MY98

MY97 Andy

My perspective on a PPP97 with decat....

Revs all the way to the limiter, in fact pulls harder 5K-7K than 3K-5K
No temperature issues.
Fits spot on.

Fitting was a doddle, left it with MikeT, went to the pub, paid him
Had 2 new rads since ..1 blown head gasket/ 1 car, tyrewall interface.......brilliant service from Mike again

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

So the radiators are available seperate?

(Oh no I just replied to a FMIC related thread... the slippery slope increases)

Adam M

mark did indeed run 350bhp.

We dont know how much of that was limited by the turbo.

With the TD05 based cars running very high power figures, not entirely sure that a similarly equipped car couldn't get close to 400 with an uprated tmic.

EvilBevel

Adam, no dig, but the choice is not just about power is it ? I'm sure you can run serious power with uprated TMIC's or... even standard TMIC's when talking MY99 onwards.

Traffic lights are really a daily thing and there is no doubt in my mind that an FMIC is "safer" than a TMIC in that respect. (engine heat radiation)

One of the things that amazed me about the FMIC is that after a heavy blast, then standing still, the temps just don't go up like they do with a TMIC. The advantage of that is not just power, but also safety when you think about det.

I'm sure you knew that anyway, so again, not a dig.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

The way I look at it, is that the car is a weekend toy and doesn't really have to deal with the stresses and strains of being a daily driver!!

I fancied something different compared to the last car, with different goals!

The TMIC seems like a go-er, but if a cheap FMIC comes up, I might just have to take it!!

Everything is just at the 'fact finding' stage, but real mods won't happen for a while yet!