ozzy

Sorry Alan, went to my kip before I received your e-mail. Some of us need or beauty sleep

Here ya go

[img]http://www.hosw08898.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/alan-3.jpg
[/img]

You can download the fullsize version here

Stefan

[Edited by ozzy - 6/2/2003 9:33:51 AM]

AlanG

Cheers Moses

The thing i like about it most is that it picks up and drives really well.
Some turbos i'd had on it had limitations and you had to drive round those to then get the best from them.
Haven't came across any downsides with this one yet and i've been driving it more recently compared of late, that's how good it feels, though my disclaimer is that no doubt something else will come along and is better!!. That's development after all.

Just look at the jump in power figures recently being achieved by Scooby owners.

All this on a std internal UK engine. I remember a few years back when UK owners were the poor relation to the Sti guys. Funny how it's all diminished to an extent now..

Alan

Edited for bad typing...

[Edited by AlanG - 6/2/2003 9:58:18 AM]

AlanG

No surge issues at all Paul.

I was out in John's car yesterday and experienced the small amount of surge he was getting on his car with the 20G.

What do you mean by wondering when that would go on a car?

Alan



[Edited by AlanG - 6/2/2003 10:30:38 AM]

john banks

You could always do a master -5 degrees retard as a girlie switch ?

On my engine at least, I am convinced that octane is the main limiting factor over 20 PSI.

[Edited by john banks - 6/2/2003 3:49:34 PM]

T-uk

good stuff sir and glad to see we have someone "to pick up the torch" and keep pushing the standard uk internals, unlike boost-aholic banks cheating with the full rebuild .

will be interesting to see if surge is an issue with the boost cranked up, not that you need to but it would be rude not to . really impressed with those headers might have to add a set to my list, or steal JB's which he dropped off ,hmmm wonder how they work with a TD05

[Edited by T-uk - 6/2/2003 6:59:56 PM]

john banks

Throw a Dawes on it Alan and the bottom end will come alive....?

RPM--Alan Boost--Andy boost--John boost
2700---0.15--------0.30-----0.25
3000---0.30--------0.50-----0.40
3300---0.45--------0.80-----0.55
3600---0.60--------1.20-----1.00

RPM--Alan Torque--Andy Torque--John torque
2700---115-----------140-----133
3000---120-----------160-----140
3300---130-----------170-----160
3600---140-----------180-----195

Interestingly the rollers had the peak torque as 85% of the peak power, AP22 has it 92-93% of the peak power.

[Edited by john banks - 6/2/2003 9:10:43 PM]

john banks

Hypo, figures like these are par for the course at Star. If you don't use them you lose 5% off the figures - and then a decat MY00 would run 211 BHP. At Well Lane cars do about 17% more from the little spreadsheet I worked out from the dyno site.

As requested... running rather more boost than Alan, a little surge in 5th gear on the road but you can drive through it, if below 1.5 bar it goes away. My wheel losses are higher than Alan's because my 4th gear is UK vs his STi gearbox. I am using copious amounts of NF, more boost, OEM manifold. Several runs on very similar spec have been in the range -5 to +12 BHP from this run.



[Edited by john banks - 6/2/2003 9:06:59 PM]

Andy.F

Should be similar, it's the same turbine it is spinning I might backtrack and try a FE TD05 on these headers


[Edited by Andy.F - 6/2/2003 11:51:35 PM]

john banks

That would be a very quick road car Andy.

If I run 450/400 on the 20G/2.33 then I should have EGBP lower than boost for most of the rev range? I wonder...

I am sure the STi heads, water and headers will all play their part. The timing advance you can run with STi heads is nothing short of phenomenal, but then again they only seem to punch their weight compared with UK cars up to 400 BHP at least?

[Edited by john banks - 6/2/2003 10:07:08 PM]

Andy.F

Sad

[Edited by Andy.F - 6/4/2003 3:56:50 PM]

Sam Elassar

oh your are no fun john the interesting thing is you have organised the names alphabetically is that a coincident ? knowing you probably not.

So tell us john who is the real brain behind your work? Is it you. are you such a guru know it all know.

.

Now I have heard it all roflpmsl!! , I am not sure what is going on scoobnet these days but all of you guys in it for the money crack me up. all you have is your reputation and try everything to keep it up. (hilarious really for an outsider).
So lets just think about this, you and andy have been slating all mark’s turbos over the last year or so and tried to promote your own TD05 AND TD06 conversions. Taking customers away from mark and all that. Best thing since sliced bread you said. More power and faster spool up. etc etc .
And now since some one else has clearly produced a product obviously superior to yours, you are trying to name drop people? Next you will say that mark is working for you and alan’s car is all your idea?

You make me laugh actually (grinning ear to ear as we speak). But hey I feel sorry for you to be honest, think of it this way what will actually happen if the word is spread around that there is a car in scotland faster than yours, and it is not mapped by john banks aka sandal wearing holy man, and what is even worst it does not have a john/andy turbo !! is this true, !! rofl


this is another typical example of your sad personality really john. questions for you here
1- did alan tell you he is not happy with his boost ?
2- did he mention that he wants it to rise as fast as yours?
3- Does it matter if you spend most of your time above 3500revs anyway?
4- Why did you put up boost comparisons is this an attempt to gorlify yourself again?



Sam
Starting to really have fun now, oh boy I miss scoobynet?


Ps how are you finding the wideband ? have you remapped all the pre wideband era again?


[Edited by Sam Elassar - 6/3/2003 5:21:31 PM]

carlos_hiraoka

do you think John, that new set of headers will unleash the xtra power ..... because usually when rally cars need more boost is when they have lost compression. A good and quick idea could be to check the compression of your engine.

Carlos H.


[Edited by carlos_hiraoka - 6/3/2003 6:38:11 PM]

carlos_hiraoka

Alan, what type of compressor wheel are u using (at least it has been made clear that you are not using a 20g ) ?????

Carlos H.


[Edited by carlos_hiraoka - 6/3/2003 6:59:35 PM]

AlanG

Carlos

I will try the Dawes purely to see how the turbo will spool up. Being a mechanical device this will allow me to see what this version of 05/06 is capable of.
I know i could bring in the boost earlier via the mapping software but then again, what would be the point? My personal feeling on it is to see what it does on its' own and then using the results from the dawes, make the best of that situation using the mapping software on the ECU.

Andy.
Your comments are appreciated on other issues regards the cloak and dagger stuff which has gone on recently between what has been eloquently termed "The Scottish Mafia" and Lateral Performance".

There has been a lot of ill feeling in the Subaru world since what i believe started back at Well Lane 3, just after i achieved 340BHP at Well Lane.

To allow those that don't know what this is all about, it starts from when i first specced a turbo from Lateral Performance to run 1.5 bar across the rev range...

The original turbo couldn't maintain this pressure and to cut a long story short, Mark has since then, given various turbos to try and satisfy this customer (me).
After many months of changes, feedback, testing, even to the extent of me going down to Mark's to show him the issues with the turbo on the car at that time, it would appear we are finally at a stage in which we have a unit which will satisfy what i would hope to be many many customers.

As it is, Mark has not driven my car in this guise. He has trusted me with honest feedback on how the car drives in all manner of situations. Indeed, when i went down to Marks to show him and Pat the issues i had with a previous turbo, they both said they had never seen that particuar problem before!! That's development guys!! We learn about these things then take them a step forward!!

With what i experience with this turbo so far, i am very very pleased in the way the car drives as an everyday car, how much power it is achieving and how little effort it has been to achieve this. All previous turbos were hard work to try and get them to to do what i wanted them to do. This one is promising more so because all i've done is change it and i've had no issues with it being a laggy turbo, or surge issues or whatever. Plus.. to get the result i did on Sunday against the likes of John Banks, how do you think i feel about it?? And it's not even been mapped yet? Fuelling, timing and boost control has still to be sorted out!!

So...one has to give Mark credit for the time and money spent on ensuring his customers are satisfied with products supplied by him.
Many business's would have thrown in the towel and came up with all manner of excuses to get rid of the *awkward customer*, but he persevered through thick and thin, which must say a lot of how he regards his customers.

It's been a funny old situation from my point of view as well, since there has been throughout this time, the opportunity to get my money back from Mark, but....what do i do after that? Where do i go? Try another company and start all over again on unproven products?

What i've learned out of all this is that when you read other peoples success's on this board, don't for a minute think, that if you buy the same turbo for example as Andy. you will get 440BHP.
Loada nonsense!!

There are far too many variables in the make up of a Subaru that you can't buy the one component and expect the same result. By all means duplicate *exactly* Andy's spec (and i mean exactly) and you will get those figures, but not if your car is a different year, different, intercooler, different injectors....you get the idea.

On to the *bitter individual* as you call it Andy. I know Sam pretty well and has taken a lot of flak when he had his Subaru all those years ago. Now that he sees what's going on here, he's only having a laugh. Okay, I agree it's maybe been taken *too far* on this occasion, but he has only been pointing out what what he believes other people have been saying as well...

You must agree that you used to enjoy *reeling Sam in* and having a laugh at his expense, but now it's on the other side, it's not alright??

I spoke to John about this very issue last night to try and re-assure him that Sam was only having a laugh to see if you took the bait and it obviously worked!! Sam has no agendas with Subaru's or the tuning community and i firmly believe he does really like John, but if you've had to lick your wounds in the past... you would come back again stronger than before.

I would suggest a big group hug, agree there's no mileage in talking behind one and others backs and help *ALL* Subaru owners get the best from there cars!!

Alan

[Edited by AlanG - 6/4/2003 10:37:52 AM]

Sam Elassar

andy

interesting that you are always defending JB? are you guys sleeping with each other. on a serious note, i kinda always wondered

i have only joined in because i got mentioned by name in one of your holy threads couple of weeks ago, i thought i will come over and play

i must admit it has been a fun day or two, but i have been told that you guys were really upset. i would not want you to start crying.

oh well, i will come back when you can handle me, not that i would want you and john to do so, not that way inclind myself. sorry.


sam
ps, judging by the number off posts that you and jb has, and the number mods, and the fact that you are out there on a mission to have the fasts and bestest car ever i came to the following conclusions.
1- you guys have got absolutely no life.
2- you must be very small too. but hey this is my opinion so i hope it does not upset you





[Edited by Sam Elassar - 6/4/2003 1:32:08 PM]

AlanG

Graph showing result halfway down page

It's been a while since my car has been on a rolling road. The last was at Well Lane 3 last year, 340BHP, 325 Ib ft, 22psi-16psi on an MD305 and since then i've made several changes to the car in an attempt to get more..

I've got to admit, it's been a slog getting there, what with different configurations of compressor wheels, compressor covers, regulators, injectors etc and to be honest I was almost at the point of throwing in the towel but now almost geting there, i'm glad i stuck at it, but only because of decent friends on this bulletin board providing support when i was down.

You all know who you are and have seen me erm...how can i say it..in my darkest hour and this is a public thanks for your perseverance.

Anyway, back to the plot.

I was at Star today for a Scoobynet rolling road meet, catching up with all the usual suspects for a good natter etc and wasn't intending to run the car cause there are various issues i still need to attend to with regards to mapping the thing for this latest incarnation of turbo on the car.
The other problem i had today was my clutch was playing up. Thought it was down to clutch fluid boiling but thanks to Andy F's suggestion when i asked him, it would appear to be something more simple.

With my last Garrett version of turbo, my tuning module on the Link ECU would sometimes flag up a det, usually as peak boost occurs, you couldn't hear it, but the ECU had clocked it, so kept an eye on things. The other problem with that turbo came down to lag.. a bit too much for my tastes.

Since i changed the turbo to the one that's on it now, there has been no activity whatsoever on the knocklink, or indeed the tuning module. Scope for some more timing then!!
I did notice though, that the car is running a bit too rich for my liking, not helped by my change in fuel pressure.

I also fitted a set of Gruppe-S headers which i initially felt that i had lost some midrange torque but had gained at the top end. This was backed up with an AP22 meter.

Comparing using the AP22 for before and after the header fitment was odd cause with the header on, i had gained very low down, lost in the midrange, then gained at the top. Bear in mind i made no changes to my map. So definite improvements to be made..

<Mental recap>
... more timing, leaner mixture, more boost... Whoohoo!!

So today beckoned and curiosity got the better of me, (and a bit of pressure from others.. )so fired it on to the rollers which John Banks, Andy F and T-uk had worked with the owner on and it spat out....

Well..., look at the graph.

It highlighted the data retrieved from the AP22 matched fairly closely with Star's figures but the good thing is, any changes i make from now, i can use the AP22 to see if i'm gaining or losing from the changes.

The intention is to run the car at 1.5 bar when mapped, at the moment it's a midges dick under 1.4 bar (20 psi in other words), so not too bad, this being run on pump fuel only, no additives or water, though i have the set up there ready to be mapped in.

The other thing is, the temperature on the day was stinking hot and inside the building was worse!! That air temp correction figure was taken under the bonnet at air filter area and can assure you it felt that hot!! So many people there went outside to cool down!, should have seen the bright red and sweaty faces on the workers there.

I believe other cars on the day had figures showing less than expected but with the high temps (which is unusual for Scotland, I can assure you!!) it's no real surprise.

Pity AndyF couldn't make it, cause i'm always impressed with what he's done in such a short time of ownership (I've had mine 4 years... ), but John Banks gave out good figures as usual on his car.

Anyway, enough of my rambling, just thought i'd share that with you, cause i've spent too much time under the bleedin' bonnet and now just want to enjoy the thing. It drives really really well now and that's why i've been a bit of a lazy so and so regards sorting the final mapping out, cause i've been enjoying it out on the road which is what we should really be doing instead of chasing numbers.

Alan





[Edited by AlanG - 6/2/2003 2:20:17 AM]

[Edited by AlanG - 1/11/2004 8:36:08 PM]

AlanG

Oh!! **** off!!

Would somebody like to host my graph please!!

or tell me of a suitable uploader!

Ta

Alan

ozzy

Use this one or send it to me.

Stefan

AlanG

You have mail. Thanks Stefan.

Alan

Sam Elassar

"but the good thing is, any changes i make from now, i can use the AP22 to see if i'm gaining or losing from the changes."


great does that mean i am not getting it back then

AlanG

PMSL.

Hiya stranger!

Erm...do you want it back??

Seriously though, thanks for the use of it Sam.

Alan

carlos_hiraoka

and sooooo the results were ?????

Carlos H.

moses

well done alan

Pavlo

that looks like a TD06/05 graph

which means that if it isn't, then you have an alternative.

Paul

AlanG

Well done Paul.

It is a TD05/06 variation but doesn't use a 20G wheel.

Alan

Pavlo

I wondered when we would see that turbo on a car. I take it you have no surge problems.

is it still using the td05 housing.

Paul

AlanG

Forgot to say, the exhaust housing is standard as it came from the factory.

Alan

john banks

Superb result Alan. Glad you put it on the rollers. Even more impressive a) on these rollers b) at such low boost c) with no additives.

Andy.F

Nice one Alan You're getting there

Pavlo

Alan,

If you have the wheel in that I think you do, it has been on the cards for some time. Just a case of when and who.

paul