Ideal Subaru for a hill climb ?
22 April 2003, 06:52 PM
#1
Thinking about using a Subaru for hill climbing - I don't want to use mine, as I don't want to damage it into wall, or anything worse!
Was thinking of using a ra. Stripping it down (inside), fitting a roll cage, and a proper racing seat. Changing the turbo to a td hybrid, and suspension to something better (dms gold?), and the brakes to ap 4pots?
Budget is as cheap as possible - anyone have any suggestions?
As budget is tight, perhaps just use normal ra and strip it down for the time being, and then upgrade in the future?
Ideas please
Also, if anyone knows of a cheap ra going, where the engine is in excellent condition - please drop me an email.
[Edited by ChristianR - 4/22/2003 6:54:15 PM]
Was thinking of using a ra. Stripping it down (inside), fitting a roll cage, and a proper racing seat. Changing the turbo to a td hybrid, and suspension to something better (dms gold?), and the brakes to ap 4pots?
Budget is as cheap as possible - anyone have any suggestions?
As budget is tight, perhaps just use normal ra and strip it down for the time being, and then upgrade in the future?
Ideas please
Also, if anyone knows of a cheap ra going, where the engine is in excellent condition - please drop me an email.
[Edited by ChristianR - 4/22/2003 6:54:15 PM]
22 April 2003, 07:00 PM
#2
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Keep an eye out for an R / RA with mild front end damage - something that can be fixed to a reasonable standard cheaply. After all, it's not like it's your "Sunday best" car 
so are you really bothered if some of the panelling is a bit wonky...
It's an idea...
so are you really bothered if some of the panelling is a bit wonky...It's an idea...
22 April 2003, 08:46 PM
#7
Christian,
If you're on a budget, then brakes are less of an issue, the hillclimb is short, so you don't need such all out big brakes or whatever. Something that is powerful yes, but fade is unlikely to be an issue, so even subaru 4 pots with good pads (Pagid RS15 Grey) will probably be fine.
95/96 Would be my first guess too, although you then have the problem of getting the turbo converted to front entry, well, the manifold and inlet mainly. ALthough you will have some parts loafing about that make this easier I am sure.
I would think that a standard TD05 with front entry conversion, or perhaps a hybrid version of same will be very economical. The hill climb is very much about engine flexibility, so huge turbos are likely not to be worth the gain at the top considering the low down performance and ££££.
Intercooler will need to be sorted, the stanard pre97 IC is crap, but even something like a Sti 3/4 intercooler would be a big improvement, and possibly the best value. Thinking about it, getting a version 3/4 inlet manifold and throttle body might be the best solution, and it's what's been done on a car I have had a hand in. That and the remote PS pump resevoir from an Astra I think (you know how that works). Injectors would be at least 440s, given the high torque with moderate top end power, this might be okay with some extra fuel pressure, 550s might be better though.
Stripped shell, caged, seam welded while you're at it.
16" wheels would be fine, ultra low profile tyres likely to be a hinderance due to the surface quality seen on most hill climbs.
Starts are very important, and this is where the budget could take a hit, as ideally you want a paddle clutch, but also a gear set that can take the launches too. Although the very low RA ratios tend to make for easier life as far as the gears are concerned. ANdy F gave his standard gearbox a lot of grief, and it lasted quite well considering. An ex grp N rally box with the Hewland gearset might be the way to go, can be had realtively cheaply, and built for the sort of abuse you would see at a hill climb.
Weight is the enemy of the hillclimb car, and in recent years we've seen a big swing towards ultra lightweight cars with moderately powerful engines rather that the F1 engined V8s and so on with huge wheels and tyres. To this end you want to put the car on a serious diet. A roll cage is about 45kg I think, although Mark A suggested the T45 tubed cages are lighter, which makes sense, but they are also much more expensive to boot.
I haven't covered everything by any means but I think it starts to give you a picture of how one might proceed.
paul
If you're on a budget, then brakes are less of an issue, the hillclimb is short, so you don't need such all out big brakes or whatever. Something that is powerful yes, but fade is unlikely to be an issue, so even subaru 4 pots with good pads (Pagid RS15 Grey) will probably be fine.
95/96 Would be my first guess too, although you then have the problem of getting the turbo converted to front entry, well, the manifold and inlet mainly. ALthough you will have some parts loafing about that make this easier I am sure.
I would think that a standard TD05 with front entry conversion, or perhaps a hybrid version of same will be very economical. The hill climb is very much about engine flexibility, so huge turbos are likely not to be worth the gain at the top considering the low down performance and ££££.
Intercooler will need to be sorted, the stanard pre97 IC is crap, but even something like a Sti 3/4 intercooler would be a big improvement, and possibly the best value. Thinking about it, getting a version 3/4 inlet manifold and throttle body might be the best solution, and it's what's been done on a car I have had a hand in. That and the remote PS pump resevoir from an Astra I think (you know how that works). Injectors would be at least 440s, given the high torque with moderate top end power, this might be okay with some extra fuel pressure, 550s might be better though.
Stripped shell, caged, seam welded while you're at it.
16" wheels would be fine, ultra low profile tyres likely to be a hinderance due to the surface quality seen on most hill climbs.
Starts are very important, and this is where the budget could take a hit, as ideally you want a paddle clutch, but also a gear set that can take the launches too. Although the very low RA ratios tend to make for easier life as far as the gears are concerned. ANdy F gave his standard gearbox a lot of grief, and it lasted quite well considering. An ex grp N rally box with the Hewland gearset might be the way to go, can be had realtively cheaply, and built for the sort of abuse you would see at a hill climb.
Weight is the enemy of the hillclimb car, and in recent years we've seen a big swing towards ultra lightweight cars with moderately powerful engines rather that the F1 engined V8s and so on with huge wheels and tyres. To this end you want to put the car on a serious diet. A roll cage is about 45kg I think, although Mark A suggested the T45 tubed cages are lighter, which makes sense, but they are also much more expensive to boot.
I haven't covered everything by any means but I think it starts to give you a picture of how one might proceed.
paul
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23 April 2003, 08:35 AM
#8
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I agree with Pavlo, but the one thing I would want was a turbo with better spool up than the stock 05. Hill climbing is generally turn and squirt stuff, not high power blasts down (up?) long straights. A 94/95 RA with a 97 inlet and IC, STi injectors and an 04 would about right, or one of the recent small VFs, if the budget allowed. It should produce around 300bhp with at least as much torque and have full boost from 2400rpm upwards. The early RA/WRX box would be about the right ratios for a hill climb (max at 126mph without rev limit changes) but ideally it would want some decent internals to cope with the shock loading of 300lbft going through to broken surfaces.
I put an 18 point cage in my RA (now owned by Mellow) and whilst it seemed totally overkill when we were doing it, the difference in chassis rigidity was amazing.
Stripping the interior doesn't save a great deal of weight but does increase the in cabin noise levels dramatically.
I put an 18 point cage in my RA (now owned by Mellow) and whilst it seemed totally overkill when we were doing it, the difference in chassis rigidity was amazing.
Stripping the interior doesn't save a great deal of weight but does increase the in cabin noise levels dramatically.
23 April 2003, 08:52 AM
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23 April 2003, 09:54 AM
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How on EARTH are you going to Hill climb in Jersy! 
Weight is definatly very important but I've seen a Raliart prepared evo TANK round. I would think the most important thing would be a good clutch (maybee a ceramic padle one? Probably out of you budget though). The launch is VERY important and to get the best your going to have to do a lot of "gung ho" starts.
I can't realy comment on turbo selection but would definatly say that a fast spool up with more midrange than top end as your gear selection is going to be more based on car balance than peak power round the "Twisties" (tm).
Tyres / Wheels... I've heard (try not to laugh) people going for smaller wheels so there's less unsprung weight and better acceleration but dont know how important that would be for the scoob.
Brakes... If your serious DONT go for "race" or fast road pads as these will never get hot enough to be of any use.. I made the big mistake of running mintex pads on mine and there useless. Try to get some ones with carbon in or composite ones that will heat up VERY fast.
Suspension.. the best you can afford Fully adustable is always going to help and make sure you sit in the car when setting up corner weights
Dont really think you have any option than an early RA as it will have short enough gearing. All depends how competative you want to be Sprint Chief on here is a marshall so may be able to give you some more info
[edited to add this any good?]
[Edited by Dizzy - 4/23/2003 10:41:08 AM]
Weight is definatly very important but I've seen a Raliart prepared evo TANK round. I would think the most important thing would be a good clutch (maybee a ceramic padle one? Probably out of you budget though). The launch is VERY important and to get the best your going to have to do a lot of "gung ho" starts.
I can't realy comment on turbo selection but would definatly say that a fast spool up with more midrange than top end as your gear selection is going to be more based on car balance than peak power round the "Twisties" (tm).
Tyres / Wheels... I've heard (try not to laugh) people going for smaller wheels so there's less unsprung weight and better acceleration but dont know how important that would be for the scoob.
Brakes... If your serious DONT go for "race" or fast road pads as these will never get hot enough to be of any use.. I made the big mistake of running mintex pads on mine and there useless. Try to get some ones with carbon in or composite ones that will heat up VERY fast.
Suspension.. the best you can afford
Fully adustable is always going to help and make sure you sit in the car when setting up corner weights Dont really think you have any option than an early RA as it will have short enough gearing. All depends how competative you want to be
Sprint Chief on here is a marshall so may be able to give you some more info [edited to add this any good?]
[Edited by Dizzy - 4/23/2003 10:41:08 AM]
23 April 2003, 02:35 PM
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Christian,
Get yourself over to one of the hillclimbs or sprints over here. There's 3 imprezas running at the moment:-
Dale Crowsley - you may have seen this at your rally, it's a fully rally prepped WRX classic.
Steve Gaudion - new this season, classic STi RA
someone else - new this season partially hillclimb prepped UK turbo classic.
Saw all 3 at the weekend, Dale did a 35 something (new record in the AWD rally class), steve a 38 and the other chap a 41. The latter two compete in the 2l+ production saloons class, the winner drives an evo5 and has more experience.
I don't think you'll have any 'breaking gears' worries if you get an RA as Steve had no problems lighting up the rears on his starts.
PS. our sprint is probably less dangerous than yours as in there's not really any bends in it, it might be worth you having a go? At least you'll get a reasonable 1/4 mile time.
[Edited by Toerag - 4/23/2003 2:42:38 PM]
Get yourself over to one of the hillclimbs or sprints over here. There's 3 imprezas running at the moment:-
Dale Crowsley - you may have seen this at your rally, it's a fully rally prepped WRX classic.
Steve Gaudion - new this season, classic STi RA
someone else - new this season partially hillclimb prepped UK turbo classic.
Saw all 3 at the weekend, Dale did a 35 something (new record in the AWD rally class), steve a 38 and the other chap a 41. The latter two compete in the 2l+ production saloons class, the winner drives an evo5 and has more experience.
I don't think you'll have any 'breaking gears' worries if you get an RA as Steve had no problems lighting up the rears on his starts.
PS. our sprint is probably less dangerous than yours as in there's not really any bends in it, it might be worth you having a go? At least you'll get a reasonable 1/4 mile time.
[Edited by Toerag - 4/23/2003 2:42:38 PM]
23 April 2003, 04:53 PM
#13
Pavlo - thanks for the info.
Pete - How much was the roll cage for your ra?
Scoty - cheers.
Dizzy - The bouley bay hill climb is very well known for hill climbing. I am sure crapaud can post the full details on the course.
Toerag - let me know when the next sprints is, might consider it. Already doing the next sprints in Jersey, Saturday May 10th. Another hill climb on May 9th.
harvey, -
Pete - How much was the roll cage for your ra?
Scoty - cheers.
Dizzy - The bouley bay hill climb is very well known for hill climbing. I am sure crapaud can post the full details on the course.
Toerag - let me know when the next sprints is, might consider it. Already doing the next sprints in Jersey, Saturday May 10th. Another hill climb on May 9th.
harvey, -
23 April 2003, 05:36 PM
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You been reading my mind Christian???
I,ve been thinking about the same thing all week!!!!
Did you go watch on Mon???
Let me know if you find anything... i would love to throw an impreza up our Hill...!!!!!!!!!!
Might even use mine!!!!
I,ve been thinking about the same thing all week!!!!
Did you go watch on Mon???
Let me know if you find anything... i would love to throw an impreza up our Hill...!!!!!!!!!!
Might even use mine!!!!
23 April 2003, 05:44 PM
#16
I watched the hill climb on Monday at Bouley Bay, pics here : http://www.cicarscene.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8
I was tempted after watching it to take mine up, but after seeing what happened to the ferrari it changed my mind!
I am only thinking about another car at the moment (funds are limited, and no doubt since I have a house going through, this might never happen). But since it costs £700 to insure mine per track day. I believe it will work out cheaper to buy a car just for these type of events, and leave mine for everyday use.
[Edited by ChristianR - 4/23/2003 5:46:19 PM]
I was tempted after watching it to take mine up, but after seeing what happened to the ferrari it changed my mind!
I am only thinking about another car at the moment (funds are limited, and no doubt since I have a house going through, this might never happen). But since it costs £700 to insure mine per track day. I believe it will work out cheaper to buy a car just for these type of events, and leave mine for everyday use.
[Edited by ChristianR - 4/23/2003 5:46:19 PM]
23 April 2003, 08:29 PM
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thats a wonderfull bit of kit you have there.......testomny to what you can do with a bit of know how and the will to see it through.........
a very very special subaru.............."takes the keys and runnns...fast "
all the best
jay
a very very special subaru.............."takes the keys and runnns...fast "
all the best
jay
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