rosswalker

I have recently done some mods to my mint MY99 UK Turbo
Tek 2
Blitz SUS Induction
Blitz centre & Back
Running 1 bar
Dynoed @ 263 bhp

I then changed the exhaust to a graham goode full system with sports cat, added a forge d/valve, turbo hoses, ht leads, and plugs.

I then dynoed it at powerstation, It produced only 250bhp. The car felt alot quicker after the gg exhaust BUT HAS NOT RELEASED ANY BHP.

I believe the powerstation dyno to be very accurate. But appreciate they are all slightly different. I believe the dyno @the first tuners which may remain anonamous, to be very optimistic in power figures.

I hear about people getting 280bhp easily from a uk car.
Any Ideas????/

SecretAgentMan

I'd say you could get a wee bit more from a tek3, which is a proper remap. But to be honest, asking 280 hp from the td04...I'd be surprised if it even could flow enough air to support that.

I haven't seen a flow chart for it, but going by the results over here one might say certain dyno results are a tad optimistic.



/J

EMS

Ross,

What do you trust more: the dyno or your butt? In mine opinion it´s more important that the car goes well on the road than that it has good RR figures! We did some back to back acceleration with 2 identical cars, they where measured with 15 BHP difference on the same day and same dyno. On the road there was absolutely no difference in acceleration!

S.A.M,

What do you think of 242.6 BHP @ wheels in 3rd gear with DD Road Dyno and standard TD04? (no tricks!)

P.S. You need a manifold for that! (and a lot of mapping)

Mark.

T-uk

What do you think of 242.6 BHP @ wheels in 3rd gear with DD Road Dyno and standard TD04? (no tricks!)

I think someone is playing with the calibration details and smoothing

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I can't speak for Jerry but I would be wondering how accurately the Road Dyno had been calibrated.

That's an awful lot of PAW for such a diddy turbo

My next question would be - how?

Rannoch

SecretAgentMan

Show me a flowchart, and tell me what boost you were running to get this figure and at what rpm...AFR and advance would be interesting as well. If it adds up - then I'll believe you.

I can't help noticing that it's mainly EcuTEK lads discovering the upper 200's of the td04...coincidence or have you discovered something?

/J

SecretAgentMan

Ah...key word lads....3rd gear.

/J

dowser

Yep - that's why it's so low

Richard

SecretAgentMan

Does things work differently in Switzerland?
I know U make decent pocket knifes, watches and chocolate...but this doesn't seem like a strength really.

Nezz10

The sports cat may have something to do with it . What was the torque figures, that is what will make it 'feel' faster.

Also the ambient temp will slightly affect the results, was it the same on both days? (Powerstation have a temp and humidity meter in house)

The graph shows my old MY00 with full Scoobysport exhaust, downpipe and ITG filter.

The lower one is the AE802 ECU and the higher one is with the TEK2.
This was done at Powerstation where I get ALL my RR done.



To get 280+ you are going to need the TD04 tuned manifold from PE and a TEK3 remap. If you want closer to (and maybe even a little over) 300 you will need to get the TD04 hybrided (£495 exchange from Lateral performance)

Dont forget the uprated fuel pump as well if you do go this route!


Nezz.

ScoobySnack

I thought it was the torque that made a car fill faster.. not BHP..

Looks like Torque was up


J

EMS

I don´t think the TD04 will last long in my setup, but I whould take it to the limit to see what´s possible. I am using 1.3 bar in the midrange dropping to 1.0 bar at 6.000. Max HP @ 5.300 with 1.15 bar, 24° advance and 10.5 - 11.0 AFR. Don´t be fooled by the relative low boost figures, as the flow massively improves with the manifold I have. (PE)

40 - 60 mph and 50 - 70 mph both in 2.0 sec isn´t too bad I think. (in the performance report from DD)

Road dyno setup data:

- heavy smoothing
- mass: 1320 kg MY99 turbo with 1/2 tank and me (90 kg)
- Cd: 0.35
- 2.2 m2 Frontal Area
- 205/50-16

P.S. The only trick I did use: it was -4°C at the day of measurement.

john banks

With a 1.22 multiplier this would be 296 BHP, doesn't seem totally unreasonable compared with Steve Done's figures with manifold on the standard TD04. On cold days at PE he breached 300 BHP, with the TD04 hybrid I think he is regularly over 300 BHP. He mapped for similar AFR and lots of timing too. Bear in mind the drivetrain losses are lower with packages like Road Dyno than a chassis dyno because of the single vs double contact patch per tyre and also the tying down IMHO.

Regarding the original post, at Powerstation many have had c 250-260 on cars which do 20-30 more at PE. It has been known for ages.

Some cars produce 20 BHP difference within a week on the same rollers with no changes, so you can't read too much into any figures.

With my tuning target of 450 BHP (see Projects) there was an interesting discussion about BHP/CFM theoretically compared with results some are getting. There remains a gulf between then as far as I can tell.

Comes back to the old thoughts - almost any affordable power measurement technique is limited to changes on the same car on the same day with meticulous controls on variables.

In addition, many cars just do not behave realistically on the rollers from the point of boost control and thermal management. Differences between setups of cars can produce differences other than differences between their actual performance.

For example, a run length that is 30+ seconds through 3rd compared with 7 on the road will adversely affect a very powerful car which is making 350 + BHP trying to accelerate rollers, and in so doing heatsoaks itself silly going nowhere with quite ridiculous engine loads. On the road you would quickly blat through this gear in no time with no ill effects.

On our local rollers if you have a car tuned "properly" for the road it will det on the rollers. It really slugs them horribly.

dowser

That's the whole point I reckon - you can run more performance on road than on the rollers (I wouldn't be happy putting my car on the rollers with the current map...). Why go anywhere near the rollers, then? Add to that the distortion of just looking at peak power and torque, rather than the curve, and it all quickly becomes pointless to me.

DeltaDyno or AP22 logs are all I use - and only used to compare the same car. I don't really care if the figures are accurate - as long as they are predictably innacurate then they serve my needs

I should add - I still look for an accurate-ish dyno. There's a big tuning house near me - but, strangely, any car tuned by another company gets low readings when they're run there I'm trying to sneak mine in the back door as an 'unknown' by a local mechanic who does their turbo's. It has a whole wall of fans

Richard
PS: lol @ SAM! I've never pushed a td04 past an 'estimated' 280 f/w

X SOOOBY

i had 285bhp on am mild day at p.e.
then 2 months later with cold air intake on a colder day at powerstation got 267bhp

so my estimate is that there is a difference of app. 25bhp betwean the 2 places

but who gives a sh*t its what you think what the car is like that matters rolling road power tests are for pub talk

5 Type R

I had my Type R dyno'd at Powerstation at little while ago and got 302bhp (234@wheels) This was with water injection, downpipe,full system and Unichip mapped to 1.4bar peak and and 1.25 held boost.

I am led to believe that this spec at PE would typically show around 320-330ish.
Also 234@wheels at PE would show roughly 330+

On the same day many PPP STI7s were only showing 260ish bhp.

Dynos change from day to day . small changes in a number of criteria can have massive effects

peccy

i have a MY00 uk turbo running 284bhp

TEK2
K&N induction
Blitz centre and back
TSL group A downpipe (decat)

reckon the downpipe makes a big difference, when car was standard i got 226bhp, with just a full decat i got 258bhp.

got the plot if ya want it.

Nezz10

peccy - where did you get it RR'd?

peccy

peccy

im on the rollers again at John Nobles this Saturday 1stMarch, so will post my result then to get another comparison of rollers.

DreXeL

I've heard That the difference between PS and PE is around 30bhp.