LG John

If you don't like v's thread then sling your hook

As well you know I have a Tek 2.5/3 and a dawes to control the boost. I currently just hit 1.25 bar in 4th or 5th on a cold day with a bit of load (hill or extra wieght).

I've discussed a 3-port solenoid with John a number of times and he's advised that if I were to get one he'd have to spend one of his much loved sunday afternoons remaping to take advantage of it.

My questions is this: What is better, the dawes or a three port. I like the safety element of the 3-port, i.e. the ECU is in charge but what about performance. What boost would the 3-port hit in the circumstance above (cold, hill, WOT)? Which gets boost up and running quicker and which holds it longer? Would one achieve any more power than the other? Which would feel faster and which would be faster? Assuming the dawes was left unaltered which would be better/faster in the summer. Most importantly, which would achieve most boost in the lower gear?

Could those in the know please critically evaluate both?

Your essays will be marked out of 50 points

john banks

The 3 port will spool up the same as a Dawes in high gears. The 3 port will be better in the lower gears if I let my clutch killer map loose, but I gave it that name for a reason so be warned. You can have the same boost in every gear, possibly even pretty near in 1st on a TD04. (I get 1.4 bar in 1st and 1.5 bar in 2nd-5th with the same overboost in the top 4 gears but my turbo is rather larger and I have a FMIC). Top end boost - I can force the TD04L to hold more with either method but I don't want to as it will just be a fan oven and your pistons will melt

I am happy to give up the time to do it if you want to do it. You will need to source a solenoid and some extra pneumatic hose from a breakers.

The real issue is that little turbo, but we've talked about that before.

LG John

Wow, I didn't realise it could run so much boost in the lower gears

This is beginning to sound very appealing My clutch has limited life left IMO. When it goes would an uprated one handle the extra low gear boost better? I take it if its hitting about 1.2-1.25 bar from 2nd through 5th its on the road performance will be slightly improved.

So what sort of hoses do I need as well as the 3-port. Anyone else had experience with a 3-port?

I always post this stuff on SN to try and not fill out your inbox john but you inevitably post anyway. Just want you to know its appreciated

john banks

The 3 port can be mounted and plugged in electrically as per the 2 port with a little work to adapt the plug, assuming it comes with the same plug mine had on it.

The hoses you need... think with the factory bits and pieces and reducers you can do most of it with just a spare run of 3.5mm ID rubber hose, but the top pipe of the solenoid requires a larger bore fitting at the solenoid end and a standard 3.5mm one at the actuator end. Look at mine when we next meet and see what you need.

[Edited by john banks - 1/18/2003 3:55:25 PM]

LG John

Cheers John. Anybody else got an opinion/experience? Anyone running a TEK 3 with a 3-port. John's done a fairly good job of convincing me so far but whats the performance like. Do you really notice the extra boost in the lower gears. Surely if you can get more boost in 2nd and 3rd the 30-70 time must be better?

I know you're going to whisper big turbo again but I got my insurance renewal this week so wheeesht

T-uk

my advice,since you will be paying for another session with JB,do it right,although it will cost a bit more with getting mapped with a wide band.

1.phone grade a breakers and order a TD05 with water pipes and boost hoses,also get a 3 port from them.approx £225

2.if on a budget send the TD05 90degree casing only,to lateral performance to be converted/exchanged to front entry(guess £130ish,they supply a cracking factory look finish),if money is not a problem send whole turbo and get rebuilt to as new spec.while on the phone to lateral order a pump(£125 scoobyshop) and decide if you want to max out the injectors or get a fuel pressure reg and keep things more sensible.

3.get your finger out your **** and get a knocklink at least fitted,a lambdalink too if you can stretch to it.(£you should already have them fitted ya loon )

4.tell insurance company that you have fitted another subaru turbo to your engine,can't see it making a huge difference if they know about the decat and remap already.

5.if money is getting short stick them in a cupboard until you can get them fitted and remapped,or buy a socket set and fit turbo yourself,should be easy enough with only getting the d/p fitted recently.have a hacksaw handy to mod the up-pipe bracket to clear the oil drain.

6.once all done start saving for the clutch

at a guess the above would give 300bhp easily,possibly 320bhp with the regulator.torque would probably be 280lbf/ft without going too silly with boost.




[Edited by T-uk - 1/18/2003 6:53:05 PM]

john banks

It will cost quite a lot more to do the wideband, since with the threads on a lot of downpipes the £120 is sometimes only usable once (so an expensive consumable) and sometimes you need a new £120 or so Subaru lambda sensor to replace it. Would recommend the wideband if changing injectors or using FPRs otherwise the costs outweigh the benefits.

Each cost is small but they all add up. Kenny you need to decide what you want, and where you are going with the car and then let me know/discuss further.

LG John

I want a TDO5, a FMIC, bigger injectors, pump, etc but that just isn't going to happen anytime soon. The reason for this thread is that I saw another thread about the 3-port and started to think it might be a good idea for improved boost control. If I could achieve slightly better boost performance from a 3-port but retain the safety element of ECU control then I'd be a happy chappy.

I don't have money to mod with really so if I decide a 3-port is for me I'll wait and buy one at the right price when I find one. John, what are we looking at (£) to remap to the 3-port?

I was out playing tonight and getting 1.21 bar in 4th and 5th and about 1.19 bar in 2nd and 3rd and about 1.7 bar in 1st. So the dawes gets pretty close in 2nd and 3rd gear. Would a 3-port make a noticeable difference?

john banks

I don't think you mean 1.7 bar in 1st, but the 3 port is an improvement in driveability and the boost should virtually always hit target in every gear. You are not however going to get oodles of power out of it unless you change that tiny turbo. You have email re mapping.

LG John

1.7 would be nice I meant 1.17 I'm not looking for lots of power otherwise I'd be thinking of a bigger turbo. I'm just aware of the fact that we are now heading towards summer with warm air and a manual boost controller I'm just thinking of being sensible

LG John

John, if that email is still in your 'sent items' can you please resend it to Dutchanator2000@hotmail.com as I'm away from work and home at the moment

pat

One other advantage, at least on an MY01 car, is that with the solenoid you can do three dimensional boost control, a feature I install on all Scoobysport mapped cars unless explicitly asked not to. This allows the driver to trim the boost with the accelerator pedal. This may seem "obvious" at first, one might say "of course you control boost with the accelerator", but say you give it 75% throttle, then you'de get full boost, right? Well, with a Dawes you certainly would, with the standard map you would too, but not with one of my maps, you need 100% throttle to get 100% boost. A Dawes or any similar device does not give you any control below the (fixed) target boost pressure, a minute movement of the throttle will make a big difference to boost. With the solenoid and 3 dimensional boost control, it's much more linear. In terms of spooling ability, I'de put them in the order of a) 3 port b) dawes and c) 2 port.

Cheers,

Pat.

T-uk

Saxo,

get a knocklink and forget the 3port just now.I doubt there would be any gain,against the values you quote with the dawes.

at least with the knocklink you will be able to lower the boost if you see big red,although as you do not do track days I do not thing this will be a problem with road use.also if your maf slowly packs in and leans you out,the knocklink should light up.

as you do crail I would strongly suggest you rig up some sort of water spray and soak the intercooler before each run.this can be done by using the headlamp washer hose routed to the scoop with a few jets.

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

hi guys, sorry to hijack but i was wondering which cars have 3 port boost solenoids fitted as standard???

thanks

dick turpin

LG John

Is this really going to make that much of a difference? I find the car runs crap in the rain so figured mines doesn't particularly appreciate rain. I know that Dougster has rigged up something but surely it would just be getting a blast of warm water from the reserviour?

I know its a hijack, but thoughts..

john banks

You need whatever help you can get running that turbo and intercooler. T-uk as usual is right.

Paul_M

It's not so much the cooling effect of the water it's the energy used in evaporation that cools the core. So the temp of the water isn't of much importance.

TBH though I'd have thought doing 1/4 mile runs with significant time between each run wouldn't be anywhere near long enough to saturate the core... or is it the heat soak from sitting in the queues before going on that causes the problem?

john banks

1/4 mile in hot conditions (or pulling away from the lights after a blast) is the classic detonation scenerio, heatsoak from last run, sitting in a queue for ages. Not too different from RR run. To warm up my oil on an impromptu RR run I took my car out on the dual carriageway first as it had been sitting for a while, and a few minutes on the rollers does not get the oil up to temp. I ended up heatsoaking it and the results were crap.

LG John

I've been thinking a lot about 1/4 mile(ing) the scooby prior to this conversation and had decided not to run it like the Saxo. I only crailed the VTS once but I had lots of runs on the day and qued a few times. With the scooby I'm going to try to get there early when you can often go straight round. This will allow me to set my best time when I've been cruising at 50mph for 1/2 a mile and not sitting waiting in the que. I'm only interested in racing a handful of cars and setting me best launch and non-launch time. I'm not up for going once a month and doing 20 runs a time just for the sake of it. My car isn't a play thing! I recall a DIY re-route thread to make an top mount so I may look into it. I could also be sad and pour a bottle of water over the intercooler prior to my runs

It would be a shame to loose the headlight washer facility as I ACTUALLY use that! Can be very good this time of year to improve beam density. So thats the trade off....the ability to see at night and not crash and an engine that won't blow up