Ra 5th injector - It's a joke !
22 November 2002, 12:30 AM
#1
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Well perhaps not a joke but it doesn't do anything of any use 
I currently have a WB Lamda on my car and I've been 'playing around' with a few things such as fuel pressure. One of my tests was a before and after, full throttle run, with the 5th injector unplugged.
The AFR did not change even 0.1 point ! and to think I went to the bother of plumbing it all in when I went parallel feed rails !
My 2 additional ERL water injectors plumbed in to the fuel line did however make a big difference, approx 1.2 AFR's throughout the range on full power
FOR SALE - 5th Injector, never been used
I currently have a WB Lamda on my car and I've been 'playing around' with a few things such as fuel pressure. One of my tests was a before and after, full throttle run, with the 5th injector unplugged.
The AFR did not change even 0.1 point ! and to think I went to the bother of plumbing it all in when I went parallel feed rails !
My 2 additional ERL water injectors plumbed in to the fuel line did however make a big difference, approx 1.2 AFR's throughout the range on full power
FOR SALE - 5th Injector, never been used
22 November 2002, 12:55 AM
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Im probably talking pish, but I wondered how a 5th injector could work/improve on a 4 cylinder engine!?
Surely if the fuel pump had to deal with a 5th more fuel than a standard 4 injector engine then it would require a bigger pump as standard or as a later addition.
Or am i talking out of my ****.
Edited due to my lazyness in reading my posts b4 posting them (spellin)
[Edited by Jaay - 11/22/2002 12:58:28 AM]
Surely if the fuel pump had to deal with a 5th more fuel than a standard 4 injector engine then it would require a bigger pump as standard or as a later addition.
Or am i talking out of my ****.
Edited due to my lazyness in reading my posts b4 posting them (spellin)
[Edited by Jaay - 11/22/2002 12:58:28 AM]
22 November 2002, 01:19 AM
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Jaay
It has a bigger pump anyway but because the pumps are overrated for the standard car then there is a reserve flow available to run 5th, 6th and even 7th injectors. (some real smart guys have 8 injectors 
)
Adam
I have kindly been left in charge of John Bank's wideband It has a digital readout of AFR with the facility to datalog to laptop.
It has a bigger pump anyway but because the pumps are overrated for the standard car then there is a reserve flow available to run 5th, 6th and even 7th injectors. (some real smart guys have 8 injectors
)Adam
I have kindly been left in charge of John Bank's wideband
It has a digital readout of AFR with the facility to datalog to laptop.
22 November 2002, 01:23 AM
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Andy, have you tried connecting a multi meter to the injector multi plug, to see if and when it is actually getting a signal, if any to open it?? and if it is, what sort of duty cycles it is using.
Seems strange for it to be there and do nothing.
Did adding the water make it read weaker or richer???
Seems strange for it to be there and do nothing.
Did adding the water make it read weaker or richer???
22 November 2002, 01:34 AM
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Steve - Not measured voltage etc but it starts, runs exactly the same with it unplugged !
I don't use water now. I still use the ERL injectors but have them on the fuel rail via a solenoid valve which is opened on a pressure switch
I don't use water now. I still use the ERL injectors but have them on the fuel rail via a solenoid valve which is opened on a pressure switch
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22 November 2002, 02:14 AM
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Im gonna leave now whilst I still have a few peas left to rattle.
Walks away muttering underbreath 'pesky 8 injectors, pesky tightfisted Bank managers/Visa Companys/Loan sharks/Pawn shops/Back street Doctors/.........'
Walks away muttering underbreath 'pesky 8 injectors, pesky tightfisted Bank managers/Visa Companys/Loan sharks/Pawn shops/Back street Doctors/.........'
22 November 2002, 11:24 AM
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Andy,
Assuming that the ECU is quite intelligent about when to use the 5th injector, are you sure that it is just not reaching the conditions under which the extra injector is turned on?
One would assume that if the injector were working then at least some of the extra fuel would reach the cylinders?
Andrew...
Assuming that the ECU is quite intelligent about when to use the 5th injector, are you sure that it is just not reaching the conditions under which the extra injector is turned on?
One would assume that if the injector were working then at least some of the extra fuel would reach the cylinders?
Andrew...
22 November 2002, 11:30 AM
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Well I've had it dyno'd at 369bhp and ran it to 7.5k rpm so I don't think it needs to see more airflow or rpm !!
I think it was just fitted for homoligation purposes, bit like the extra 4 injectors on a RS500 Cosworth, decorative on the road car !
I think it was just fitted for homoligation purposes, bit like the extra 4 injectors on a RS500 Cosworth, decorative on the road car !
22 November 2002, 11:36 AM
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Andy,
I take your point, but, I thought that the early rally cars used the std JECs ECU (remapped obviously) as it has features like antilag built in, but not mapped on the road cars, perhaps there is a 5th injector map in there somewhere?
Andrew...
I take your point, but, I thought that the early rally cars used the std JECs ECU (remapped obviously) as it has features like antilag built in, but not mapped on the road cars, perhaps there is a 5th injector map in there somewhere?
Andrew...
22 November 2002, 11:50 AM
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My ECU is a Z5 if that helps ? I'm about to find out if the maps are in the same locations shortly as I'm fitting a DIY board from Pavlo.
22 November 2002, 07:25 PM
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My 2 additional ERL water injectors plumbed in to the fuel line did however make a big difference, approx 1.2 AFR's throughout the range on full power
..... injecting more fuel or methanol ?Carlos H.
22 November 2002, 09:27 PM
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Nice, I followed most of that for a change. I need to take a closer look and im sure its obvious to those that know but the 5th injector is in the middle of the inlet manifold how can it contribute to any of the cylinders?? Or in theory should just spray in the middle of the 4 manifold arms and that way all four cylinders will be fed?
23 November 2002, 12:20 AM
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It's fuel I run through the ERL injectors, it used to be a methanol/water mix when I had to control det at high boost.
If it did operate then the central location of the 5th injector 'may' distribute fuel to all 4 cylinders but I'd be surprised if it was even
[Edited by Andy.F - 11/23/2002 12:22:30 AM]
If it did operate then the central location of the 5th injector 'may' distribute fuel to all 4 cylinders but I'd be surprised if it was even
[Edited by Andy.F - 11/23/2002 12:22:30 AM]
17 May 2007, 04:12 PM
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ECU's were free to be changed in rally cars as long as they fitted in the std casing. It will be a pure homologation thing much like the extra 4 on RS500's
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