Amanda-Jane

Hey, what you and Richard get up to in your spare time is nothing to do with us

Edited to say that 'Saxo Boy' said that

[Edited by Amanda-Jane - 11/2/2002 12:25:40 AM]

LG John

I've got a habit of using part throttle on the car to punch her up to speed - usual from roundabouts on the bypass. This obviously means that in 2nd, 3rd and part of 4th gear I'm getting full or near full boost with only about 25% or less throttle. This is nice and smooth and it doesn't feel like I'm ragging the car.

However, I'm concerned with that much boost and so little throttle open that the ECU might not be able to find the fuel to match the air going in! Running a dawes at 1.25 bar remember!

Any thoughts of this! I really don't fancy modifying my driving habits to include no boost or full bore foot to the floor boost as that IMO isn't a driveable everyday car!!!

SCOSaltire

good idea to be aware of it.

but i am sure JB would have sorted u out fine...

[Edited by SCOSaltire - 10/31/2002 2:15:11 PM]

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

delta dash/lambda link to tell you wether its running lean??

john banks

With the Tek 2.5 controlling the boost it is a lot smoother and more linear on part throttle, but you might not like the fact that there is not quite the same punch in the back.

However, with the Dawes controlling the boost you do get more boost on part throttle. At 25% throttle opening you should not really be able to get full boost if you have a 1.5mm bleed hole and follow the instructions with the Dawes that say you should keep the bleed hole clear and check it monthly. With 1.5mm bleed hole I used to get full boost on 50% or greater throttle openings.

This was the whole reason for the bigger bleed holes to start with. When I originally checked your car over with the Dawes on it was not making this much boost on 25% throttle, but since then you have had the Dawes replumbed by AWD so I have not seen what it is like now.

If you want to buy a 3 port solenoid I can map it for that for you, but the solenoid costs quite a lot compared to what you paid for the map unless you happen to be able to get one from a breaker's yard.

So I would suggest you check the bleed hole is clear on the Dawes. If it is so and really that frisky on 25% throttle let me have a look at it for you. The Dawes would do this on any ECU BTW, it is not related to the ECU map.

It will not go lean if it is making full boost on half or greater throttle. On 25% throttle there is a risk it could, but more worryingly that the turbo could be spinning quite quickly and lead to damage. No one has done this with a Dawes yet to my knowledge on a TD04L turbo, but that is not to say it couldn't happen - quite possible with the original 0.5mm bleed hole they were shipping with. Meantime if there is an issue don't use 25% throttle I would say. Hope this helps.

LG John

I had a wee bet with myself that you'd post up about bleed holes John....guess I win

Great response though and just the sort of thing I was looking for, I'll experiment a little more to see how much throttle gets how much boost. In the meantime do you have any instructions for bleed hole increases?

BTW the reason I mentioned the TEK was because it runs different fuelling at certain points and more importantly allows me to run more boost. 0.8 bar without correct fuel would be nearly as dangerous as 1.25

john banks

Running the same setup as you effectively with a FMIC tonight I did not get full boost until at least 50% throttle. 25% throttle made about 5 PSI. Agree it is a bit snappy, but that is the Dawes for you. If you increase the bleed hole too much it just becomes a bleed valve. You can remove the Dawes and use small drills to increase the hole. Get rid of the shavings turn the Dawes down and refit. Let us know what your part throttle boost is really like after a further play, but if you are going to go for it use a decent amount of throttle - kinder to your engine letting it breathe through an open throttle.

LG John

Payed a bit more attention tonight on the way home. Seems to make full boost at around about 40-50% throttle...hard to judge though. It defo makes a fair wallop of the stuff at 25% and less. Any thoughts

John, how did you manage to bring yourself down to my level I'd be running about 3bar with your turbo and intercooler

john banks

Errr... the turbo let go, but I have another one coming on Monday. You really do need a big turbo Saxo, a Scooby with a TD04L feels normally aspirated in comparison. However, things start breaking more frequently when you do unless you are sensible and do something like what Theo did and stop there.

[Edited by john banks - 10/31/2002 8:10:03 PM]

LG John

Oooops!! Why do you think it let go?

I like your thinking though...if at first you don't succeed....try again

john banks

Difficult to say is a condensed version of a long story. Hence the try again.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Sorry Kenny - bit off topic....

John - just wanted to say that with the cold weather my tek 2.5 is maxing out at 17.5 PSI and the car feels great.

Just had the 45k service done at AWD which it was needing

Got a new Dawes and Dawes AFR sitting in the house but not fitted them yet - might wait until the spring when the temp starts a risin and the boost starts a droppin.

Richard.

LG John

Ah, but did it every occur to you that it will be dropping for a reason (i.e. hot air)!! Get it on now for some brutality

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

The spring time will see it take it's place

john banks

Richard is not a brutal sort of chap

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

I've seen the way Kenny looks at John

Actually the main reason the Dawes isn't on the car this now is because with the Tek I don't have to declare anything to the insurance chaps and I can't afford any increase to the premium this now (sniff sniff).

I'm going to get myself along to a meet as I'd like to see what the Dawes feels like on a Tek 2.5 car with a downpipe. Now that I'm aware of which way Kenny swings I'm not that comfortable about asking him for a demo

LG John

Don't worry, I bat only for the boys

More than happy to demonstrate but as you may be aware I'm not convinced my car is pulling like it should. Would probably be good to get your opinion on that one actually. I'm also getting a bigger TMIC soon so hopfully that'll make a difference

john banks

I'm not convinced it is pulling as it should either - it still has a TD04L

It's a bigger TURBO and fuel pump you need not a bigger TMIC I have always maintained you wouldn't be happy until you do.

[Edited by john banks - 11/2/2002 1:09:42 PM]

LG John

I know but I think secretly I'm waiting till the TD04L lets go so I have no choice but to buy a new one

The reason for the intercooler is just that extra bit of safety (as I gather it'll remove a little of the stress from the turbo)

I am happy with the car in its current set up its just that sometimes it pulls sooo much stronger that others and it doesn't seem temperature related

The last time it really went for it AJ and I were chucked into the seats and just looked at each other in amazement?? Sometimes I can see the arguement for big capacity over turbo charging....far more simple

EvilBevel

John, for my info ... I had always assumed that MAF voltage & RPM were the main input to establish "load" and load sites.

I do understand TPS plays a role, but do you have any idea what role exactly ?

I would be amazed if Kenny's car would run very lean at half TP though to be honest.

john banks

Many things affect gas flow through your engine. Bigger turbo will be cooler anyway, so not rely as much on the intercooler. You would need to run a TD04L seriously hard to make it let go they are tough little things, in fact so hard I think you would put your engine in danger first. Believe me you don't want it to let go and get bits in your engine anyway.

TPS seems to have a small input only Theo can't really quantify, but it is there hence why I suppose the MAF sensor does not fully compensate for all breathing/mods.

LG John

Well I don't actually want it to let go but I want it to keep blowing away until I can afford/justify a big turbo

<whisper> Cerbera </whisper>

Who said that?

Andy.F

I know I've just got an 'old' car but by playing with the TPS position I could either increase my EGT by 100 degC or make it knock like a thing that knocks a lot !! Suggesting to me that it seemed to have a significant effect on the ign timing.
So I now have a new tuning aid

EvilBevel

Andy, it never stops to amaze me... OK, from your post, can we conclude TPS has more of an influence to ignition maps than to fuelling maps ?

I remember when we first explored the Unichip 2 years ago, we had to set the "max TPS" to something really silly "low", so we could effectively map on MAF/RPM as our only input to define load sites.

Mark EMS will correct me if needed, but I think I'm about 99 % sure on that one. Make that 99.9 %.

Of course, as you say, your old banger versus or less older bangers may make a total difference.

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the offer Kenny - it would be good to see you car anyway (never have!) and it'll be interesting to see/feel the difference a d/p makes.

I'll have to keep my eyes open for the next meet or drop you a line when I'm next through in the east.

Richard.

Andy.F

Theo

Not sure how much effect it has, I run close to the edge of det, so only 1 or 2 degrees advance could give me knock.
Stranger was the EGT ??? On cruise my temps were much higher. At WOT they were the same as before.
It may be that the TPS signal change was enough to take it from closed loop to open loop fueling at cruise ??
Don't know, found it a bit odd myself

john banks

AFAIK on the 99/00 the load is the same for the ignition and fuel maps and made up from RPM, TPS and MAF and then referenced in a 2d map against RPM. Yes I believe RPM is in there twice since I can hit higher load at the same throttle position with a lower MAF voltage at higher RPM. Strange but true, suspect there might be some VE type maps in there.