305 bhp on std ECU.........reasonable ? ; )
26 August 2002, 03:47 PM
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When it's AT THE WHEELS on a warm sunny day 
Latest rolling road day at Star Performance 305 bhp at the wheels @ 6000 rpm Not bad for a standard internals 2.0 scoob motor
The front entry to the std TD05 certainly works, with over 300lb-ft torque from 3700 to 6300 with a maximum of 345 lb-ft at 4600 there is real 'kick' every time you shift up.
Flywheel power was 369 bhp although this was an 'un-corrected' figure due to the dyno temperature probe being broken.
Jim advised (from the R/R manual) that +6% should be added to compensate for the warm ambient temp on the day.
This would equate to 391 bhp / 366 torque but I'll settle for my un-corrected figures........makes it easier to improve next time
As a reference a de-cat MY02 made 220 bhp flywheel and a de-cat P1 made 268 bhp flywheel.
Now, where can I find that extra 9 bhp
Andy
Latest rolling road day at Star Performance 305 bhp at the wheels @ 6000 rpm Not bad for a standard internals 2.0 scoob motor
The front entry to the std TD05 certainly works, with over 300lb-ft torque from 3700 to 6300 with a maximum of 345 lb-ft at 4600 there is real 'kick' every time you shift up.
Flywheel power was 369 bhp although this was an 'un-corrected' figure due to the dyno temperature probe being broken.
Jim advised (from the R/R manual) that +6% should be added to compensate for the warm ambient temp on the day.
This would equate to 391 bhp / 366 torque but I'll settle for my un-corrected figures........makes it easier to improve next time
As a reference a de-cat MY02 made 220 bhp flywheel and a de-cat P1 made 268 bhp flywheel.
Now, where can I find that extra 9 bhp
Andy
26 August 2002, 04:28 PM
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Fantastic results.
Just curious to know what tpye of CO's/AFR's you're running now.
I would imagine that your injectors must be starting to struggle a little now days
Mark.
Just curious to know what tpye of CO's/AFR's you're running now.
I would imagine that your injectors must be starting to struggle a little now days
Mark.
26 August 2002, 04:29 PM
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Andy,
well done mate - do you have Shetland Ponies in Scotland
Interestingly at PE a 369bhp figure for estimated ATF power would give a ATW figure of 250-265 bhp - obviously the calculation works in a different way.
Will have to come to your next Star day when I finally move up North!
Trout
well done mate - do you have Shetland Ponies in Scotland
Interestingly at PE a 369bhp figure for estimated ATF power would give a ATW figure of 250-265 bhp - obviously the calculation works in a different way.
Will have to come to your next Star day when I finally move up North!
Trout
26 August 2002, 04:32 PM
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Trout
It's the 'at wheels' figure that is measured ie REAL, the flywheel figure is the estimate !
So a car with 305 at the wheels would make about 420 flywheel at P eng then
Must take a run down one day for some 'free' horses
I just keep adding more of them mate
[Edited by Andy.F - 8/26/2002 4:40:13 PM]
It's the 'at wheels' figure that is measured ie REAL, the flywheel figure is the estimate !
So a car with 305 at the wheels would make about 420 flywheel at P eng then
Must take a run down one day for some 'free' horses
I would imagine that your injectors must be starting to struggle a little now days
I just keep adding more of them mate [Edited by Andy.F - 8/26/2002 4:40:13 PM]
26 August 2002, 04:40 PM
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Andy,
I know what you are saying - you expressed it better than I - I am sleepy after a long night - would love to see you run 420bhp at PE - about time someone ran a decent car
Trout
I know what you are saying - you expressed it better than I - I am sleepy after a long night - would love to see you run 420bhp at PE - about time someone ran a decent car
Trout
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26 August 2002, 04:46 PM
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There were 15+ cars running on the day, the result should be posted up soon, then you can draw your own conclusions
Star is normally considered conservative with the horses
FWIW A modified EVO7 ran 254 PAW / 317 Flywheel on the same day
Richard, there is a thread somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up
Star is normally considered conservative with the horses
FWIW A modified EVO7 ran 254 PAW / 317 Flywheel on the same day
Richard, there is a thread somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up
26 August 2002, 05:06 PM
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You have to have a flipping flying machine to break 200 BHP at the wheels at Star (or at least it feels like it), at PE it is pretty easy with much lower specs
[Edited by john banks - 8/26/2002 5:07:52 PM]
[Edited by john banks - 8/26/2002 5:07:52 PM]
26 August 2002, 05:24 PM
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It begs the question... was the car actually standard before you got it?? How can your fuel pump keep up??
Do you know if the fuel pump and ecu are actually original items?
Perhaps the STI RA cams are different from other subarus??
The transmission losses should not be any different from one RR to another, they are measured after a power run, with the transmission free-wheeling down.
Either way, excellent result, with the 1/4 mile times to back it up too. Theres another event at Elvington at the end of October, with 1/4's this time. Your car would have done very well at the 500m last time though.
Do you know if the fuel pump and ecu are actually original items?
Perhaps the STI RA cams are different from other subarus??
The transmission losses should not be any different from one RR to another, they are measured after a power run, with the transmission free-wheeling down.
Either way, excellent result, with the 1/4 mile times to back it up too. Theres another event at Elvington at the end of October, with 1/4's this time. Your car would have done very well at the 500m last time though.
26 August 2002, 05:25 PM
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Even if one wants to argue the correctness of RR's etc, that is damn impressive. I think "value for money"* certainly is in place here.
Well done
* I first wrote "bang for buck", but that could have a connotation that I didn't want at all
Well done
* I first wrote "bang for buck", but that could have a connotation that I didn't want at all
26 August 2002, 05:34 PM
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This has brought me quite nicely to a question I have.
I know from the torque value at xxx rpm you can work out the power at the wheels, does the rolling road use calculations from the torque or does it measure power at the wheel from the rollers?
Cheers,
Rob?
I know from the torque value at xxx rpm you can work out the power at the wheels, does the rolling road use calculations from the torque or does it measure power at the wheel from the rollers?
Cheers,
Rob?
26 August 2002, 05:43 PM
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Hehe Theo, when/if it does go BANG....you'll probably hear it
Stevie, It was pretty unimpresive when I got it, appeared bog standard, 12 psi boost, fully catted up, no sign of tampering etc the downpipe took 3 hours to get off due to rusted/siezed turbo bolts !
It's not an Sti, just an Ra, I uprated the fuel pump some time ago, regarding cams ?? Std as far as I know, starts boosting from 2200 full boost by 2800 tails off after 6k. Even Sti's run strong to 7k +
What's the Elvington format this time ?
Stevie, It was pretty unimpresive when I got it, appeared bog standard, 12 psi boost, fully catted up, no sign of tampering etc the downpipe took 3 hours to get off due to rusted/siezed turbo bolts !
It's not an Sti, just an Ra, I uprated the fuel pump some time ago, regarding cams ?? Std as far as I know, starts boosting from 2200 full boost by 2800 tails off after 6k. Even Sti's run strong to 7k +
What's the Elvington format this time ?
26 August 2002, 06:26 PM
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Well, I'm sure with that power people *would* hear it, but I personally wouldn't want to know about it. Doesn't give me a kick at all...
I love it when people debunk a few myths, and in my book you are one of those (oooh, gets all cudly now ) so I hope your engine lasts another 200.000 miles in the current state I know it was meant tongue in cheek etc etc...
Honest question: I know it is fashionable these days on Scoobynet to slag cossies , but how much of your current "expertise" (words are a b1tch sometimes) comes from your cossie time ? I ask because I still have the feeling that - with a very broad brush - most people that add serious content re:tuning to this BBS are often linked in one way or another to Cosworth engines - no offence meant to the other people.
I love it when people debunk a few myths, and in my book you are one of those (oooh, gets all cudly now
) so I hope your engine lasts another 200.000 miles in the current state I know it was meant tongue in cheek etc etc...Honest question: I know it is fashionable these days on Scoobynet to slag cossies
, but how much of your current "expertise" (words are a b1tch sometimes) comes from your cossie time ? I ask because I still have the feeling that - with a very broad brush - most people that add serious content re:tuning to this BBS are often linked in one way or another to Cosworth engines - no offence meant to the other people.
26 August 2002, 06:26 PM
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26 August 2002, 07:27 PM
#20
Respect due to ya bro'
or something like that!
It makes my 100 atw a little pathetic
All those little tweeks certainly do add up afterall.
Congrats.
F
PS I'd like a ride sometime to see what that sort of power feels like
or something like that!
It makes my 100 atw a little pathetic
All those little tweeks certainly do add up afterall.
Congrats.
F
PS I'd like a ride sometime to see what that sort of power feels like
26 August 2002, 07:28 PM
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Cheers guys
Theo, I prepared and circuit raced a Cosworth a few years back, so yes that gave me a sound grounding I guess. I was however weaned on ford x/flows and Pinto's (the shame of it )
I have learned more about turbo cars since I've started experimenting with my scoob though ! Lots of myths out there !
Tony, Although I've spent more on trying bits n pieces, the kit on the car just now cost exactly £1K
Steve, What's wrong with 1.8 bar on std internals
Theo, I prepared and circuit raced a Cosworth a few years back, so yes that gave me a sound grounding I guess. I was however weaned on ford x/flows and Pinto's (the shame of it
)I have learned more about turbo cars since I've started experimenting with my scoob though ! Lots of myths out there !
Tony, Although I've spent more on trying bits n pieces, the kit on the car just now cost exactly £1K
Steve, What's wrong with 1.8 bar on std internals
26 August 2002, 08:01 PM
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As far as I know, they are doing its 1.5 mile top speed runs, with timed 1/4 miles and head to heads. £70 entry, and anyone can go. Pay on the day I think.
As for 1.8 bar on std internals, my mates legacy is running 1.7 bar, on a stock UK MY98 engine, albeit with second hand sti pistons. No problems so far, despite a wobbly open deck block.
As for 1.8 bar on std internals, my mates legacy is running 1.7 bar, on a stock UK MY98 engine, albeit with second hand sti pistons. No problems so far, despite a wobbly open deck block.
26 August 2002, 09:54 PM
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Bit's list and where to get them, all parts new unless noted s/h
Twin dump downpipe (Falkland) £ 180
3” bore silencer (Jetex) £ 50
3” sleeve for exhaust joint (Jetex) £ 10
K&N cone filter (demon tweeks)(RS500) £ 65
Fuel pump (Mark A) £ 130
Fuel presure regulator (FSE)£ 100
Fuel pipe for fuel rail mod (demon tweeks) £ 30
Water injection nozzle (ERL) £ 10
W/I solenoid (ERL) £ 20
W/I pressure switch (ERL) £ 25
Sti intercooler (s/h off scoobynet) £ 150
Alloy plate for I/C water jacket (local fab'r shop)£ 10
Radiator for W/I (modified air con rad off this car) £ free
Flexy water hose for chargecooler (B&Q) £10
Electric water pump (demon tweeks) £ 120
Bleed valve for fuel cut & boost control (RS catalogue) £ 25
Misc wiring, switches, alloy welding (local supplier) £ 25
Manifold spacers/ heat isolators (surplus from work ! )£ 20
Samco intake hose (demon tweeks) £ 25
TOTAL £ 1005 (damn, broke out of 1K budget !)
These are the bits I’ve added. Ive also taken lots of bits off but they were free !
Other ‘bits’ include boost gauge, EGT gauge, charge temp gauge and knocklink but they don’t add power, just monitor !
Sam's right, if you add my development time at £ xx / hour then it's not so cheap but hey, it was and still is fun !
ps - not stopping here either new front mount on test next, charge cooler has been sold so budget should creep back in line
pps There's a wee bit more to it than just bolting on the bits but this gives the general idea
Andy
Ooops Forgot the Scoobysport up-pipe 100n something £'s This is getting expensive !!!
[Edited by Andy.F - 8/26/2002 11:09:13 PM]
Twin dump downpipe (Falkland) £ 180
3” bore silencer (Jetex) £ 50
3” sleeve for exhaust joint (Jetex) £ 10
K&N cone filter (demon tweeks)(RS500) £ 65
Fuel pump (Mark A) £ 130
Fuel presure regulator (FSE)£ 100
Fuel pipe for fuel rail mod (demon tweeks) £ 30
Water injection nozzle (ERL) £ 10
W/I solenoid (ERL) £ 20
W/I pressure switch (ERL) £ 25
Sti intercooler (s/h off scoobynet) £ 150
Alloy plate for I/C water jacket (local fab'r shop)£ 10
Radiator for W/I (modified air con rad off this car) £ free
Flexy water hose for chargecooler (B&Q) £10
Electric water pump (demon tweeks) £ 120
Bleed valve for fuel cut & boost control (RS catalogue) £ 25
Misc wiring, switches, alloy welding (local supplier) £ 25
Manifold spacers/ heat isolators (surplus from work ! )£ 20
Samco intake hose (demon tweeks) £ 25
TOTAL £ 1005 (damn, broke out of 1K budget !)
These are the bits I’ve added. Ive also taken lots of bits off but they were free !
Other ‘bits’ include boost gauge, EGT gauge, charge temp gauge and knocklink but they don’t add power, just monitor !
Sam's right, if you add my development time at £ xx / hour then it's not so cheap but hey, it was and still is fun !
ps - not stopping here either
new front mount on test next, charge cooler has been sold so budget should creep back in line pps There's a wee bit more to it than just bolting on the bits but this gives the general idea
Andy
Ooops Forgot the Scoobysport up-pipe 100n something £'s This is getting expensive !!!
[Edited by Andy.F - 8/26/2002 11:09:13 PM]
26 August 2002, 10:18 PM
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Cheers Andy
Do you do many miles in your car these days or is it mostly for the track?
I do around 30,000 a year in mine and was looking to see what sort of modding is the max I could do to keep it safe - guess it will just depend on the internals, i.e. better fueling, new TMIC and turbo could probably run 310/320 all day long?
Rich.
Do you do many miles in your car these days or is it mostly for the track?
I do around 30,000 a year in mine and was looking to see what sort of modding is the max I could do to keep it safe - guess it will just depend on the internals, i.e. better fueling, new TMIC and turbo could probably run 310/320 all day long?
Rich.
26 August 2002, 10:36 PM
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how much boost are you running and what rev limit does your car have? you said it`s a wrx ra so is it more like a uk turbo engine wise?
very impresive
regards mike
very impresive
regards mike
26 August 2002, 11:04 PM
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Richard
Although my car could be used as a daily driver it isn't. Not because of the engine though, it's very docile off boost
It does tend to be a case of drive normally or 'be a nutter' though ! It just has that effect when you give it some
It was quite amusing on the rollers when it came alive and spun all 4 wheels I don't think Jim was expecting it ! Lots of spray on glue later, it got a grip !!
John B is the one to watch regarding a daily driver with plenty power, watch that go with a front mount and induction on it
I would say 310/320 is going to be long term reliable ok.
Mike - I run different boost depending on the weather ! sounds silly but the pressure is up/down 2-3 psi depending on ambient conditions
For the dyno run (warm day) it was approx 1.7 bar midrange dropping to 1.5 bar at 6000 rpm. It will happily hold 1.8 bar from 3000 through to 7000 but on a warm day this will just produce more heat and exhaust backpressure than power. Don't know what my rev limiter is at, never hit it yet !
Although my car could be used as a daily driver it isn't. Not because of the engine though, it's very docile off boost
It does tend to be a case of drive normally or 'be a nutter' though ! It just has that effect when you give it some
It was quite amusing on the rollers when it came alive and spun all 4 wheels
I don't think Jim was expecting it ! Lots of spray on glue later, it got a grip !!John B is the one to watch regarding a daily driver with plenty power, watch that go with a front mount and induction on it
I would say 310/320 is going to be long term reliable ok.
Mike - I run different boost depending on the weather ! sounds silly but the pressure is up/down 2-3 psi depending on ambient conditions
For the dyno run (warm day) it was approx 1.7 bar midrange dropping to 1.5 bar at 6000 rpm. It will happily hold 1.8 bar from 3000 through to 7000 but on a warm day this will just produce more heat and exhaust backpressure than power. Don't know what my rev limiter is at, never hit it yet !
26 August 2002, 11:24 PM
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Andy,
you don't include a turbo on your list - are you saying the standard turbo you had on there will hold 1.5bar or more to the redline?
If not then that is a major expense item for most peeps - just curious.
Car looks very well set up - would love to run it side by side to see how they compare
Trout
you don't include a turbo on your list - are you saying the standard turbo you had on there will hold 1.5bar or more to the redline?
If not then that is a major expense item for most peeps - just curious.
Car looks very well set up - would love to run it side by side to see how they compare
Trout