My FMIC and porting...sort of.
13 June 2002, 10:09 PM
#3
Nice sheared bolts...
I would try and taper the hole as far into the header as possible.
Golden rule: Rough and straight rather than smooth and undulating walls.
Also looks like your cutter is being spun pretty slow.
Paul
I would try and taper the hole as far into the header as possible.
Golden rule: Rough and straight rather than smooth and undulating walls.
Also looks like your cutter is being spun pretty slow.
Paul
13 June 2002, 10:17 PM
#4
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Well, who needs a rattly heat shield anyway? Its using an air die grinder, so it aint spinning that slow. I dont see any point in enlarging the whole furhter down, as it is going to be restricted in places i cant reach, so whats the point. The rough edges have been taken off and I think it would be better to keep a smooth consistent bore size rather than steps up and down from where I can reach, to where I cant.
Rough and straight??? I think a good smooth passage is much better, radius where possible. Undulating?? What?? Its a manifold, not the ocean.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/13/2002 10:19:57 PM]
Rough and straight??? I think a good smooth passage is much better, radius where possible. Undulating?? What?? Its a manifold, not the ocean.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/13/2002 10:19:57 PM]
13 June 2002, 10:31 PM
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What did you get your intercooler off??
Porting looks nice... I started doing mine, but I had a slight accident a couple of years ago and punched a glass window.. since having two ops on my right hand I cant use a die grinder for long lengths of time as it gets bloody cold.. so Im doing it slowly!! Ill get there eventually... what cutter you using in yours? and where do you get them from?
David
Porting looks nice... I started doing mine, but I had a slight accident a couple of years ago and punched a glass window.. since having two ops on my right hand I cant use a die grinder for long lengths of time as it gets bloody cold.. so Im doing it slowly!! Ill get there eventually... what cutter you using in yours? and where do you get them from?
David
13 June 2002, 10:53 PM
#6
I thought I saw a post that claimed that the head port was the same size as the header. Is the port the same size as the carbon ring left on the header, or is that an oversize gasket?
Paul
Now the boring bit...
Smooth and straight would be best, obviously if you have changes in section then you're gonna need a radius and an angle. But the thing to avoid in general are hollows everywhere.
As for taking the taper further down, I mean make the taper shallower and longer, less of an angle if possible, but it may just be the photo.
The cut does look a little rough to me. I am used to using something like a 1/4" carbide cutter, running on an air die grinder at about 80psi, dunno what speed 20-30k rpm I think, then clean with a emery tube.
I would say though that the 1/4" cutter has finer teeth on, if it's too slow thats when it starts to chatter.
Paul
Now the boring bit...
Smooth and straight would be best, obviously if you have changes in section then you're gonna need a radius and an angle. But the thing to avoid in general are hollows everywhere.
As for taking the taper further down, I mean make the taper shallower and longer, less of an angle if possible, but it may just be the photo.
The cut does look a little rough to me. I am used to using something like a 1/4" carbide cutter, running on an air die grinder at about 80psi, dunno what speed 20-30k rpm I think, then clean with a emery tube.
I would say though that the 1/4" cutter has finer teeth on, if it's too slow thats when it starts to chatter.
14 June 2002, 01:14 AM
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The intercooler is actually off a truck, a mate got it from work. It has a slight dent on one of the tubes, just to the left of the lucozade bottle...lol Its way too big to fit in a car, just posted the pic for a laugh. I am using a cheapie clark 1/4 die grinder, at about 100psi ( to try and keep the speed up ) and using a grinding stone set bought out of B&Q, for about £9. Have you seen the price of carbide cutters! No way. I did the manifold, and used only 1 stone, and there is still plenty left on it. There was definately a lot of material removed from the manifold. A point to note would be that although this is a wrx manifold with the lambda boss in the manifold, it is for a UK car, so as can be seen the lambda boss is removed entirely, and plugged ( literally, pinto spark plug modified to suit ). The lambda boss does seem from visual inspection to be a major restriction. If the lambda sesnor was re-installed, its gona block the port again. Best to use the lambda in the downpipe I think if possible. I will do the other side tomorrow, and will be fitting them to me mates legacy on saturday. Mines still off road, so it will be a while before I need to worry about my manifolds.
I just took the ports out to very close to the gasket line. It only took me a couple of hours tonight, although I think its gona take longer to clean all the grinding **** out of my nose..A mask might be an idea.
The head port at the minute probably would be a very similar size toe the manifold. The gasket is standard, and a lot larger than either ports. look
Some pics of before, and off cyl head exhaust port, you can see the line I scribed on the manifold indicating the gasket line.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/14/2002 1:19:19 AM]
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/14/2002 1:21:46 AM]
I just took the ports out to very close to the gasket line. It only took me a couple of hours tonight, although I think its gona take longer to clean all the grinding **** out of my nose..A mask might be an idea.
The head port at the minute probably would be a very similar size toe the manifold. The gasket is standard, and a lot larger than either ports. look
Some pics of before, and off cyl head exhaust port, you can see the line I scribed on the manifold indicating the gasket line.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/14/2002 1:19:19 AM]
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/14/2002 1:21:46 AM]
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14 June 2002, 08:47 AM
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Steve,
Have a look at www.rswww.com they arent too badly priced... search for 690-912
Well worth getting.... Nowt wrong with clark die grinder... I certainly arent buying a snap on grinder...
David
Have a look at www.rswww.com they arent too badly priced... search for 690-912
Well worth getting.... Nowt wrong with clark die grinder... I certainly arent buying a snap on grinder...
David
14 June 2002, 02:20 PM
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The stones from B&Q seem to work fine, and there was a few different shapes and sizes in the set, so £9 aint too bad. I will need a carbide cutter though, as I am going to attack my cylinder heads soon, even though I know its a bad idea.
14 June 2002, 02:23 PM
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Aluminium tends to clog the cutters up a bit... depends on how coarse the cutter is...
David
David
14 June 2002, 02:58 PM
#11
You shouldn't use stones on aluminium at all, it can be very dangerous. Alumnium gets into stone, expands, stone can explode. Regular HSS cutter is okay for Al, but I would invest in a carbide cutter, as they last about 10 times longer, the sharp edge makes for easier cutting with less vibration.
Paul
Paul
14 June 2002, 04:51 PM
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Heres some interesting reading on using truck cores...
Truck Intercooler Cores
There are differences between a 'truck intercooler' and an intercooler fitted into a performance car application. However, 'truck intercoolers' is a broad term and does not sufficiently categorise the product. Just like other types of products, truck intercoolers come in different configurations - both bar and plate and tube and fin design. I have not seen a plate tube & fin core in a truck, they would be too weak. However, due to their specialised application, truck intercoolers have a noticeably courser internal fin &/or external fin pitch (depending on whether tube and fin or bar and plate), than their cousins fitted into normal performance car applications. This means that although a new truck core can be used in performance applications, the core surface area/volume must be larger in proportion to that of a standard 'performance core', & then it will give good temperature drop, but it will be at the cost of a medium/ high "static" pressure drop & higher radiator water temperatures.
A truck intercooler core is nearly always larger because even though the engines are slow revving, they have a large swept capacity requiring a high cfm. intake charge, also there average road speed is much slower & the engine is under load most of the time. Because of the slower road speed, thinner cores per area and with less fpi., are used to keep the air speed onto the water radiator as high as. 37mm thick is common. They also have a large frontal area for the engine radiator, giving more room for the intercooler.
We cleaned out a Volvo truck intercooler (it had plastic tanks) & during the job, discovered that it had no internal fining, turbulators, nothing, inside the charge air tubes at all. When the customer came to pick it up, I asked him how it going on his car (Cordia), & he said brilliant ! He had never measured the temperature drop, & I guess he drove pretty easy, so it may do a reasonable job, but put it on a Commodore & it would be hopeless.
The larger volume of a truck intercooler has three main drawbacks:-
1) Higher 'static' pressure drop
2) Increased 'turbo lag'
3) Higher engine water/under bonnet temperatures - in front mount applications, as the large truck intercooler blocks more of the air flow through to the radiator.
Therefore, if money is a major issue than new truck cores in a performance car are a viable BUDGET alternative, especially if tanks can be made & fitted at "mates rates"!
Used Truck Intercooler Cores
It is my opinion that used truck intercooler cores should not be used in a performance car. Using a used truck intercooler core is a huge gamble, are you prepared to risk the welfare of your engine because of a cheap intercooler. Why put a $100 core in front of a $2000+ engine? It also is a slow job to do properly, as compressed air has to be blown through the tubes, from the opposite end to which you are working on.
Most truck intercooler cores can fit into a performance car application, but they nearly always have to be modified. During this modification process, whether it be when the old tanks are being cut off, or when the core is being cut down in preparation for welding tanks on, or when the tanks/core is being cut down, swarf and fillings can get lodged in the core, some of which can be up to 600mm in length and can be imposable to blow or clean out. The result is that they dislodge days or weeks later, after working their way through the intercooler tubes and intake piping and end up passing straight into the engine. I'm sure you can imagine the result of that !? Another point is that bar & plate and finned tube cores are much, much harder to clean any solid particles out of as they get trapped in the fins & have to "travel" through the length of the tube, interestingly, the exact same reason why per sq. cm., these cores dissipate heat better, but at a higher "static" pressure drop.
Remember that a used truck core is for sale for a reason. If you buy one, hope that the truck was hit up the ****, because if it was hit around the cab, then the core was more than likely damaged or twisted to some extent. If the damaged section was cut off, your core will still have some stress & 'set' in it & even if not leaking when purchased, the heat & cutting when modifying it to fit, may release the stress, resulting in leaks in the header plate/ tube joints when finished. We do not do this work anymore for this reason, it happens far too often !
Picture of core in test tank.
Used truck cores in a performance car are a stupid, desperate alternative, & if you haven't guessed, a pet hate of mine. Use them in your smoky turboed A12 powered rusty 120Y, but please not in a performance car. I'd much rather see you buy from an opposition shop !!
From a leading Austrialian aftermarket cooling specialist
On a lighter note use a slower speed die grinder for aluminium with a carbide cutter. Keep dipping the cutter in Parafin (also spraying WD40 onto the work area works a treat),as it stops it clogging and gives a better finish.
Scot
[Edited by Scot123 - 6/14/2002 5:00:23 PM]
Truck Intercooler Cores
There are differences between a 'truck intercooler' and an intercooler fitted into a performance car application. However, 'truck intercoolers' is a broad term and does not sufficiently categorise the product. Just like other types of products, truck intercoolers come in different configurations - both bar and plate and tube and fin design. I have not seen a plate tube & fin core in a truck, they would be too weak. However, due to their specialised application, truck intercoolers have a noticeably courser internal fin &/or external fin pitch (depending on whether tube and fin or bar and plate), than their cousins fitted into normal performance car applications. This means that although a new truck core can be used in performance applications, the core surface area/volume must be larger in proportion to that of a standard 'performance core', & then it will give good temperature drop, but it will be at the cost of a medium/ high "static" pressure drop & higher radiator water temperatures.
A truck intercooler core is nearly always larger because even though the engines are slow revving, they have a large swept capacity requiring a high cfm. intake charge, also there average road speed is much slower & the engine is under load most of the time. Because of the slower road speed, thinner cores per area and with less fpi., are used to keep the air speed onto the water radiator as high as. 37mm thick is common. They also have a large frontal area for the engine radiator, giving more room for the intercooler.
We cleaned out a Volvo truck intercooler (it had plastic tanks) & during the job, discovered that it had no internal fining, turbulators, nothing, inside the charge air tubes at all. When the customer came to pick it up, I asked him how it going on his car (Cordia), & he said brilliant ! He had never measured the temperature drop, & I guess he drove pretty easy, so it may do a reasonable job, but put it on a Commodore & it would be hopeless.
The larger volume of a truck intercooler has three main drawbacks:-
1) Higher 'static' pressure drop
2) Increased 'turbo lag'
3) Higher engine water/under bonnet temperatures - in front mount applications, as the large truck intercooler blocks more of the air flow through to the radiator.
Therefore, if money is a major issue than new truck cores in a performance car are a viable BUDGET alternative, especially if tanks can be made & fitted at "mates rates"!
Used Truck Intercooler Cores
It is my opinion that used truck intercooler cores should not be used in a performance car. Using a used truck intercooler core is a huge gamble, are you prepared to risk the welfare of your engine because of a cheap intercooler. Why put a $100 core in front of a $2000+ engine? It also is a slow job to do properly, as compressed air has to be blown through the tubes, from the opposite end to which you are working on.
Most truck intercooler cores can fit into a performance car application, but they nearly always have to be modified. During this modification process, whether it be when the old tanks are being cut off, or when the core is being cut down in preparation for welding tanks on, or when the tanks/core is being cut down, swarf and fillings can get lodged in the core, some of which can be up to 600mm in length and can be imposable to blow or clean out. The result is that they dislodge days or weeks later, after working their way through the intercooler tubes and intake piping and end up passing straight into the engine. I'm sure you can imagine the result of that !? Another point is that bar & plate and finned tube cores are much, much harder to clean any solid particles out of as they get trapped in the fins & have to "travel" through the length of the tube, interestingly, the exact same reason why per sq. cm., these cores dissipate heat better, but at a higher "static" pressure drop.
Remember that a used truck core is for sale for a reason. If you buy one, hope that the truck was hit up the ****, because if it was hit around the cab, then the core was more than likely damaged or twisted to some extent. If the damaged section was cut off, your core will still have some stress & 'set' in it & even if not leaking when purchased, the heat & cutting when modifying it to fit, may release the stress, resulting in leaks in the header plate/ tube joints when finished. We do not do this work anymore for this reason, it happens far too often !
Picture of core in test tank.
Used truck cores in a performance car are a stupid, desperate alternative, & if you haven't guessed, a pet hate of mine. Use them in your smoky turboed A12 powered rusty 120Y, but please not in a performance car. I'd much rather see you buy from an opposition shop !!
From a leading Austrialian aftermarket cooling specialist
On a lighter note use a slower speed die grinder for aluminium with a carbide cutter. Keep dipping the cutter in Parafin (also spraying WD40 onto the work area works a treat),as it stops it clogging and gives a better finish.
Scot
[Edited by Scot123 - 6/14/2002 5:00:23 PM]
10 May 2003, 05:54 PM
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Seeing as the thread has been brought up. I did buy a carbide cutter. quite a coarse one, and it wasnt too expensive.
As tools go, Im almost as fond of it as my angle grinder
It really was well worth buying, as it just rips through any material with ease. I did another set of manifolds shortly after mine, with it, and it just eats the cast iron away like its butter, same with aluminium, although it did leave a rough finish. But very good for removing metal.
Just watch out for the debris it eats away, it tends to be hot.
Goggles and gloves are a must
As tools go, Im almost as fond of it as my angle grinder
It really was well worth buying, as it just rips through any material with ease. I did another set of manifolds shortly after mine, with it, and it just eats the cast iron away like its butter, same with aluminium, although it did leave a rough finish. But very good for removing metal.Just watch out for the debris it eats away, it tends to be hot.
Goggles and gloves are a must
10 May 2003, 06:18 PM
#14
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Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
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As tools go, Im almost as fond of it as my angle grinder
I bought the die grinder thinking it would get used once.. how wrong I was..
David
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