Is Beyond 1.1bar held sensible
08 June 2002, 06:00 PM
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Thinking of giving the dawes a turn, however after reading many threads [most inconclusive] I am concerned about damage.
I have no AFR Meter [On its way].
MY99 UK Model last 2000 miles on optimax only SS backbox, all else as standard.
I have no AFR Meter [On its way].
MY99 UK Model last 2000 miles on optimax only SS backbox, all else as standard.
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03 July 2002, 02:51 PM
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I'm interested in this issue...I have an EMS chip from Holland, which I think does not change the fuel map. The risk is that if you run too high the map runs out of values then the mixture goes lean. This in turn gives hot temperatures and the risk of melting pistons....ouch!
I think that if you run on suitably high octane fuel (I always use 99 when avail), and you are not going lean, then everything should be ok. Gearboxes seem to be ok for 300 ftlbs and no more, but you won't get that much without other extensive mods.
I'd be interested to hear from people who've run 1.2 bar or so for a reasonable length of time and in various condtions of temp and pressure. I reckon 1.1 bar is pretty safe, but you need to keep an eye on it in case the conditions change and make it fluctuate.
We also have to bare in mind that we are at the mercy of the accuracy of our boost guages. Best thing is to have real time sensing of mixture, but this means ££££ of course.
James
I think that if you run on suitably high octane fuel (I always use 99 when avail), and you are not going lean, then everything should be ok. Gearboxes seem to be ok for 300 ftlbs and no more, but you won't get that much without other extensive mods.
I'd be interested to hear from people who've run 1.2 bar or so for a reasonable length of time and in various condtions of temp and pressure. I reckon 1.1 bar is pretty safe, but you need to keep an eye on it in case the conditions change and make it fluctuate.
We also have to bare in mind that we are at the mercy of the accuracy of our boost guages. Best thing is to have real time sensing of mixture, but this means ££££ of course.
James
03 July 2002, 03:17 PM
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Cheers for the info...I'm running 1.2 held in the higher gears, but thinking of backing it off to 1.1(ish). Pity cos the car feels great at 1.2!!! Maybe I'll wait and see what happens to yours! :-)
email me at jpidding@ford.com with your progress and I'll do the same for you!
James
email me at jpidding@ford.com with your progress and I'll do the same for you!
James
03 July 2002, 03:56 PM
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Its sure best to back it off higher up I think. When I was at 1.15 I made sure that by 6k rpm it was down to 1.0, didn't want to push it too high, I'm now running 1.2 via the ECU so its a bit different than with a boost controller, and fuel, knock, advance etc corrected for accordingly. Nevertheless, its still 1.2 on a standard engine........
Might be worth investing in a copy of Delta Dash to keep tabs on things......
Might be worth investing in a copy of Delta Dash to keep tabs on things......
03 July 2002, 04:42 PM
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Ran 1.2 for 10 months (linked MY00, fully decatted) with:
Stock turbo / stock IC
VF24 / stock IC
VF24 / HKS FMIC
Then I upped boost to 1.3 bar, which I've been running for 4 months now, the thing that really helps is a proper fuel pump if you're going to run 1.3 bar on a bigger turbo, otherwise you're in danger around 6000 rpm and upwards.
A week ago I swapped the 24 for a 23...and it's still at 1.3 bar...
It's been used daily, and on track...and in the FO cold Swedish winter.
No issues at all.
/J
Stock turbo / stock IC
VF24 / stock IC
VF24 / HKS FMIC
Then I upped boost to 1.3 bar, which I've been running for 4 months now, the thing that really helps is a proper fuel pump if you're going to run 1.3 bar on a bigger turbo, otherwise you're in danger around 6000 rpm and upwards.
A week ago I swapped the 24 for a 23...and it's still at 1.3 bar...
It's been used daily, and on track...and in the FO cold Swedish winter.
No issues at all.
/J
03 July 2002, 06:27 PM
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James, (I think we once mailed right ?)
I've used the same EMS setup for 40.000 kilometers (before switching to VF23/Unichip, still done by Mark EMS), with no problems at all. 1.2 bar held sounds right, and trust me, the mixture will still be pig rich (more than 9 % CO, on some cars off the scale at 10 % CO plus )
I don't have all the stats, but I think at least 300 cars have used this setup over the last 4 years (mainly in Holland/Belgium), and the reputation that it is rock solid has to come from somewhere
Some cars had done over 150.000 km before being sold again.
This setup tested between 250 (overly rich car) and 260 BHP (mine, 9 % CO) on PS rollers BTW if that tells you anything. I'll help: it's higher than any other car with sensible setup/standard turbo.
Oh, and some very high profile tuning company used the same principles to tune the MY01 (where it doesn't work as well )
Another clue: at least 2 official Subaru dealers in Holland gave you the option to fit the EMS kit with full warranty when you bought your car with them. They had complete trust in the principles behind it. You also keep your overboost protection BTW, only it is placed a bit higher up.
Oh, and Mark (EMS) posts here from time to time BTW Although, mind, he switched to the dark forces of the EcuTek side
I've used the same EMS setup for 40.000 kilometers (before switching to VF23/Unichip, still done by Mark EMS), with no problems at all. 1.2 bar held sounds right, and trust me, the mixture will still be pig rich (more than 9 % CO, on some cars off the scale at 10 % CO plus )
I don't have all the stats, but I think at least 300 cars have used this setup over the last 4 years (mainly in Holland/Belgium), and the reputation that it is rock solid has to come from somewhere
Some cars had done over 150.000 km before being sold again. This setup tested between 250 (overly rich car) and 260 BHP (mine, 9 % CO) on PS rollers BTW if that tells you anything. I'll help: it's higher than any other car with sensible setup/standard turbo.
Oh, and some very high profile tuning company used the same principles to tune the MY01 (where it doesn't work as well
)Another clue: at least 2 official Subaru dealers in Holland gave you the option to fit the EMS kit with full warranty when you bought your car with them. They had complete trust in the principles behind it. You also keep your overboost protection BTW, only it is placed a bit higher up.
Oh, and Mark (EMS) posts here from time to time BTW
Although, mind, he switched to the dark forces of the EcuTek side
03 July 2002, 06:38 PM
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Lo Theo U old mullet. Long time.
I was starting to need a bigger exhaust side...I was getting noise issues, I think the backpreassure was a wee bit much for what I was asking from the lump.
So...after a week with the 23...it doesn't hit as hard as the 24 did, but that could be an effect of the 23 being better at holding torque high.
The old bumcrack dyno tells me that I've got more torque, and I've been at the advance map a wee bit without any noise issues.
Pls contact me on MSN mate (jerry@impreza.nu)
/J
Long time.I was starting to need a bigger exhaust side...I was getting noise issues, I think the backpreassure was a wee bit much for what I was asking from the lump.
So...after a week with the 23...it doesn't hit as hard as the 24 did, but that could be an effect of the 23 being better at holding torque high.
The old bumcrack dyno tells me that I've got more torque, and I've been at the advance map a wee bit without any noise issues.
Pls contact me on MSN mate (jerry@impreza.nu)
/J
04 July 2002, 08:17 AM
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Thanks for all the replies guys! Most helpful.
EvilBevel, yes I remember we mailled b4. Didn't you say then that you had taken your car down to Italy or something?
I think I'm happy that 1.2 is safe under most conditions....the only thing is whether or not my guage is spot on. I was thinking of how I could rig it up in parallel with a tyre pressure guage to check it. The one I have is by Omori....cost about £120 quid, so should be a decent bit of kit!
I think that there is so much interest around power and boost levels that we could almost have a separate section on the BB!!! The dyno plots section is useful in seeing what pleople run, but doesn't give any info on durability.
James
EvilBevel, yes I remember we mailled b4. Didn't you say then that you had taken your car down to Italy or something?
I think I'm happy that 1.2 is safe under most conditions....the only thing is whether or not my guage is spot on. I was thinking of how I could rig it up in parallel with a tyre pressure guage to check it. The one I have is by Omori....cost about £120 quid, so should be a decent bit of kit!
I think that there is so much interest around power and boost levels that we could almost have a separate section on the BB!!! The dyno plots section is useful in seeing what pleople run, but doesn't give any info on durability.
James
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