harvey

iTrader: (48)

Extreme Caution.
On 26th April and again on 8th May I gave orders to the above company having dealt with them several times previously. Total value was nearly $5,000 and some bits and pieces did arrive. The matter dragged on and despite promises to complete the order or make refunds it was only in September when I made five specific promises as to the action I was going to take that I eventually got a refund against the non delivered items of £900 odd.

While all this was going on I became aware that my friend in Finland who had ordered 3 turbos was having similar difficulties. After numerous broken promises he was refunded his money by his credit card company who were going to take issue with Paypal. Sam Harris's attitude was that they could do nothing as the matter was time expired.

I have just seen that Turbometrics are advertising in Scooby Shop, particularly turbos.

Caveat Emptor.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

bttt.///

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Oh great, put an order in with him just after xmas.
Will chase immediately!
Thanks for the heads up harvey.

p1dazza

Scammer?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I dealt with Sam Harris satisfactorily for two years before he took the Michael as outlined above.
I was also sent links to sites in Canada and the U.S and many other Scooby owners were having bad experiences at the time. From what I could see on these sites, his reputation was very poor. I concluded he had serious money problems.
After all the excuses came numerous lies and I only eventually got my refund in September after I promised and explained to him the course of action I was about to take.
The undelivered items were pretty basic stuff like instruments and a case from Innovate to carry my LM1. Nothing that was hard to source.

Good luck getting the items you have ordered. PM or e-mail me or post on this thread as I am interested to know how you get on.

I am concerned that he is still advertising in Scooby Shop and atracting those who are unaware.

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I'll post back on this thread regarding the service I receive. Good or bad, it's only fair.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I hope you have no problems and can report back in a favourable fashion but what I have posted above is absolutely accurate so you will understand my concerns for you.
Obviously this thread gives Sam Harris an incentive to act professionally.
Good luck.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

bttt.///

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

So far Sam has been fairly good at responding to emails, which is promising.
I am now just waiting on the UPS tracking number (expected today), which will confirm that the goods are actually on there way. Fingers crossed.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Good luck with that. I dealt with him satisfactorily for a couple of years before I gave him 2 significant orders in April and May and the wheel came off and I know I was one of many experiencing difficulties during 2007.

p1dazza

Has STiFreak got his delivery or a load of excuses?
What did/do you have on order?

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Update: I have still not had a tracking number, so can only assume the goods have not yet shipped. I had an update via email on Friday, saying that he expected to ship it today. We will see.

I found this thread on a Canadian subaru forum, which seems to indicate that most people do get their stuff, but the delivery times are pretty random (can be anywhere from few days to several months). Turbometrics Complaint - Page 2 - Toronto Subaru Club
I guess from the above thread, that he doesn't hold stock of a lot of items, so if his suppliers are out of stock then you will wait.

Still hopeful I will get my FMIC.

MrRA

STIFreak, I ordered an APS DR525 FMIC from Sam. I found him to be very helpful, even to the point of helping me with import duty so that I only ended up paying £55, which I was very pleased with. The delivery was a bit slower than I hoped for but he did not let me down.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

STiFreak: When did you get the bits your ordered?

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Hi Harvey,

Well I eventually got a tracking number the end of last week. Problem is, it is still showing as Billing Information Received (which means the goods are still to be collected for shipment).

Sam has answered all my emails and has been very apologetic about the time taken, which I appreciate ... but that still doesn't change the fact that I am still waiting for my bloody FMIC, which I paid for 5 weeks ago.

Could you please pm me as to what course of action you threatend him with, as I am getting to that stage now.

hotsam

Harvey -You and I did business on a very good basis for several years before you had one order that went badly. You did receive most of the order, and as I recall, a refund was issued via bank wire transfer when you asked for it. When you first asked for the refund I was on vacation (Jersey shore) so I could not issue it right away. I also remember that you said that you would not spread **** around the internet if you recevied your refund. I will keep my word and not make personal attacks, even if you seem to be doing so. I also recall you going MIA a few times (family death, you were in hospital (twice!), etc), and you were not answering emails. One shipment went to your house and got sent back to me because you weren't there to get it (although you did manage to intercept the package at the last moment and have it sent back to you). I also tried CALLING YOU several times and you never answered the phone or returned my messages.

Your friend in Finland agreed to the production delay from Forced Performance, told me to proceed with the order, and then, a few hours after giving the instruction to proceed, issued a chargeback with his bank, which left me in a not-so-great position with my supplier (had to cancel the order).

THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY.

STiFreak, your order is going out today, as per the 2 or 3 emails I sent to you today. There was nothing wrong with the order, just a communication problem between the supplier (who, as you know, I disclosed to you), and myself. My original 2 suppliers on the east coast sold out of DR525 intercoolers the day you placed the order. So, I had to find a new supplier on the west coast. The supplier is 8 hours behind you (3 hours behind me), so the tracking number should be active by 1AM, February 9th, your time. I believe I have responded to all your emails promply, have updated you every step of the way, and have also ensured that you will owe little or no tax or duty.

Regarding the Toronto thread, I made mistakes which I accept blame for, and I no longer deal with that forum (my choice, I'm still a member, but I don't post), however, I still get daily orders from the Toronto area and I am sponsering two and maybe three Rally teams. Nobody there was ever scammed...nobody lost money. People were annoyed at things taking too long (imagine that...parts from Australia that come over on a container ship take a while...hmmm), but NOBODY LOST A CENT. Refunds are issued when they are requested.

Harvey asked for a Paypal refund, which I couldn't provide because more than 90 days had elapsed. So, I issued a refund via bank wire. Your situation is different, because you paid with a credit card. I can always issue an immediate refund within 90 days or, since you used a credit card, you can dispute the charge and get your money back. But, since the order is going out today, this is not going to be an issue.

Havey threatened my reputation (which he is attempting to do on this thread), my family's security (by threatening to call the gov't agencies which I occasionally consult to), and my honor by calling me a liar and a thief. This was 2 days after writing a very nice email to me asking for advice on how to install a product he bought from me. Harvey and I had a very nice relationship (exchanged stories, pictures of family/pets/cars) that was ruined by one bad experience we had after many good ones.

STiFreak, you have my personal cell phone number. Give me a call at any time and we can discuss your order.

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Sam,

Firstly thanks, I see the goods have now shipped as promised and I look forward to receiving them.

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, you have been good at responding to queries about my order, but please also realise that I was starting to get concerned and frustrated at the goods taking so long to ship. I originally placed my order with you based on the recommendation I received from MrRA. Your price was very good, so I have never wanted a refund, just the goods I had paid for. I don't believe I have a misrepresented the transaction between us in any way on this thread, but if you feel this to be the case, I am happy to discuss.

I will post back again once the goods are delivered.

hotsam

STiFreak,

I completely understand your frustration at the situation. You have not misrepresented the transaction in any way. You ordered a part (an expensive part!) and it took a bit longer than anticipated to ship.

You should be receiving your intercooler in about 5 to 7 days, and you should not owe very much tax or duty.

Sometimes things happen, be they supplier delays or what have you. It is my job as a vendor to effectively communicate the situation with the customer, which I believe I have done in this case.

I also look forward to the safe delivery of your part.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Hi Sam : I have just seen the above, most of which is complete and utter rubbish.
I placed orders with you on 26 April and 8 May. You strung me along for several months and after agreeing to a refund it was not forthcoming as promised. I had to take other steps before you eventually made the refund from your personal and not business account as I recall and that was mid September or later.

TOTAL KRAP.

We did enjoy a good relationship over two years as I outlined above but it went sour when you started taking the Michael. It should not take from April to September to supply mundane things like guages or an Innovate case for the LM1 and so forth and then renage on the refund promised several times.
Now do the honourable thing, send STi Freak his bits like you have promised above.
I wasted so much time on the problems you caused and you know it is unwise to push me further.

hotsam

Push you? I responded to your post with my side of the story. I believe that is fair. I will refrain from referring to you any further. Oh, and I made the refund from my personal account because that bank has lower fees for wire transfers. Why you care, I have no idea. Since we have both presented our sides of the story, let my future actions speak for themselves.

STiFreak's "bits" were shipped on Friday, 8th, as the following tracking information indicates (I have removed the tracking and reference numbers):

Tracking Number: xxxxxxx
Type: Package
Status: In Transit
Shipped To: CAMBRIDGE, GB
Shipped/Billed On: 02/08/2008
Reference Number(s): xxxxxxx
Service: EXPEDITED
Weight: 30.00 Lbs

To view full delivery address information and a signature image:

Provide account validation information

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
ONTARIO,CA, US 02/09/2008 7:31 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
ONTARIO,CA, US 02/08/2008 10:01 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
GARDENA,CA, US 02/08/2008 8:39 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
02/08/2008 7:19 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 02/08/2008 12:05 A.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

**NOTE: UPS doesn't update shipping status very frequently on weekends.

STiFreak has also made his concerns known to the board, and I have done my best to answer his concerns. Let him speak for himself from now on.

hotsam

Sorry, I had to respond to this.

Harvey attempted to dispute charges using Paypal's online dispute system. One of the restrictions on the system is that after a certain amount of time has passed (which I believe is either 60 or 90 days), you can no longer dispute a charge. This may be to protect vendors from fraud attempts, but I'm not really sure.

Harvey told me that he was going to dispute the transaction because I made a couple of attempts to issue him a refund from my account, and these attempts were not successful. I have my Paypal account linked to a Paypal debit card which I use for routine expenses (monthly UPS charges, phone bill, etc..). Each time I tried to issue the Paypal refund, a charge would come through which would drop my balance just below the funds that I needed to issue the refund. So, the refund never went through (my fault, really, I should have just stuck another $500 in the account to cover myself).

When Harvey told me that he was going to dispute the transaction, I told him not to bother, because Paypal would disregard the dispute due to the amount of time that had passed. I did not say this because I have a "bad attitude", I said it because it is a fact. That is how Paypal works. I was not being flip, rude, or otherwise.

When I was coming home from vacation, I got a call from Harvey saying to check my email. In the email he demanded a refund by a certain date (I remember this because I got the message when I was going to the bathroom at the California Pizza Kitchen in Inner Harbor, Baltimore). We agreed via email to do a wire transfer, and that is how the refund was issued. Harvey provided his bank information, and I wired him the funds.

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Gents, I am going to step out of this argument. My goods shipped on Friday as previously mentioned, which was all I was waiting for and I believe the rest is up to UPS now. I will update this thread again once the goods arrive here with me.

Miki

WOW !!!!
So this is how you summarize the whole thing???

There was "a bit" more than that. To start with, the items were supposed to come from Blouch Turbo within a couple of weeks of payment. Blouch supposedly let you down on a few things, so you switched to FP. Ok from my part, items should have been ready in a couple of weeks you said. Again something happens, and the delivery is delayed, to start with by a couple of weeks.... and so on, and so on. Yeah yeah I know, you're the middle man and you can't force anyone to produce anything, I heard that several times. You were still the seller, and I was the customer, YOUR customer.

Several times you said you would know more tomorrow, or next week or so, but still sometimes I didn't hear from you in weeks. Every time it was I who had to ask what was happening, and got only excuses back. You were holding 4500USD of my money but your idea was "not to report if you have nothing to say". What a way to treat a customer.

I gave you a deadline, which you convinced me to postpone, a couple of times IIRC. You kept on with your "tomorrow" and "next week" style until I finally gave you the options, tracking number for the shipment of the ordered parts, full refund or I would issue a chargeback by a given date. You did not manage to meet the deadline, so I issued a chargeback. This was THREE MONTHS after I sent you the money!

At this stage you did what I think was very cheap, you stated you had sent me as much as three emails asking if I want the stuff, and then said I never replied! Those emails never reached me, I had been waiting for the stuff for three months, of course I wanted it. There was no reason, whatsoever, for me not to reply, but to do that I have to get the emails first, ie you have to send them... Even after that move I still gave you a chance to prove you have ordered the stuff, after which I would have canceled the chargeback, but this was not ok with you so that ended our miserable deal.

I'm not going to continue arguing with you regarding this deal here on SNet, I heard enough of your excuses last year. As you said there are two sides to every story, and our two versions are indeed quite different. I hope you have improved on your way of doing business since last year, cause waiting for months for something to happen is just a complete waste of time, for everyone.

hotsam

Not the whole thing, just how it ended.

The delay at FP was caused because they completely shut production down because the guy who assembles their turbos broke his hand. I told you that several times. That was the only excuse I gave.

Even today, at full production with no staffing problems, FP has a six week backorder on their "RED" turbo. Six weeks = 1.5 months. Give them a call...check for yourself.

Here's a quote from JSC Speed, a very reputable dealer here in the USA:

At the end of our series of emails, I think we discovered that you were not getting some of my emails. I resent you a few emails and you claimed to have never gotten them. If you think I made that up, you're mistaken. I use gmail (google apps) for business email, and I believe Google has a reliable email service.

EDIT: After waiting for forever for FP to get things going, we decided to go with Deadbolt, who quoted a 1 week production cycle. That is the order that I had to cancel at the end, not an order with FP. But it was the order with FP that caused the bulk of the delays. Regarding the 3 emails (and several others), here is a screenshot from gmail-lite which shows them (last 3 at the bottom):



You can see that I emailed you 3 times on the 5th and once on the 6th, and you didn't reply until the 12th. I am going to assume that this was caused by an email glitch, spam filter, or maybe you just missed them.

We can use STiFreak's transaction as a typical transaction, even though he had a delay.

- Order placed, details worked out over the phone
- My two main east coast suppliers sell out the same day (located in Connecticut and New York).
- Third supplier in Utah is also sold out
- Part located in California
- Order placed with distributer in California. Name of distributer given to customer as a show of good faith.
- 4 day delay caused by distributer inputting the wrong credit card security code when he tried to run my payment, I call and fix the problem. MY FAULT FOR NOT CHECKING WITH HIM MORE QUICKLY.
- Part ships from California to customer in UK using UPS labels and customs documentation provided by me.

So, unless I shipped STiFreak a box of bricks, I would call this a smooth transaction with prompt communication. There a small but significant shipping delay that caused STiFreak to be worried, especially after he saw this thread. His package is now in the UK at the East Midlands Airport, so I assume he will have it very soon.

EDIT (Feb 14): I completely forgot that STiFreak's payment to me took over a week to clear because my merchant service provider's risk department (the people who control credit card payments) held the funds due to risk concerns (a large payment from the UK didn't fit in with my existing pattern of transactions). This caused a major delay.

STiFreak

iTrader: (4)

Just an update as promised. My FMIC arrived this afternoon.

I have not had the opportunity to unwrap all the individual pipes, etc. but it was well packed and seems to have survived the trip with no more than a few small scratches on the paint on one end tank (nothing a spot of black spray paint won't fix) ... despite UPS clearly mistreating the box.

All in the APS DR525 has cost me £800 incl tax, duty and delivery ... which is an excellent price considering they cost about £1120 incl VAT locally.

hotsam

Great news!

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Sti Freak : I am glad you got your FMIC, even if it took a long time to come, six weeks plus I reckon.

Miki had to get a refund from his credit card company. I think that says a lot without even looking at the detail of what he has to say.

At no time did I dispute any charges. All I wanted was the goods I had paid for up front 26 April and 8 May.
Well at least we agree that the delays had resulted in a time out on Paypal. Over three months and lots of items still outstanding. Numerous promises were made and I was strung along. When I had enough of your lies in August I asked that you make a refund. At that time you told me you had goods on their way to me but it was difficult to tie that down because you would not provide a list of what was on its way to me (nothing ever arrived anyway) and although you provided a tracking number, as you had done on previous occasions, the goods could not be tracked because they had never left your premises.
At that time, outstanding from 26th April were the following :-
Clutch Kit, turbo blanket (previously invoiced but not sent), injectors, low temperature thermostats.
Outstanding items paid for 8th May :-
Turbo, EGT guage, LM1 carrying case, Apexi I-Monitor, Anti-Surge Tank Kit.

Don't try and blame all that on the various suppliers.
I had suggested you read my previous detailed e-mail as you did not seem to know what you were doing.
The items above would generally be considered off the shelf items and they certainly do not warrant a three month plus wait.
Here is what I wrote :-

Now square that with the rubbish above.
As you admit you were unable, for whatever reason, to make a Paypal refund to me and it took until around the third week of September until your payment was received. In other words six weeks from when I asked you for the refund and that was after I explained to you clearly what I was going to do next.
The hassle far outweighed the potential savings and I think it is only right that members of this BBS are alerted not only to my experience but that of others who had dealt with you not just in the UK but in Canada, and the USA.
If you wish to dispute further what I have written here I will simply pull together the e-mails that passed between us from 26 April to September 2007and publish them on my website Commercial website removed
My only interest is ensuring that fellow Scoobynetters do not have the same experience Miki, others and I have had to put up with.

hotsam

I originally posted few paragraphs in this post, but after doing something thinking, I've decided to edit them out.

Harvey, you had a bad experience with me. You are a respected member of this community, and I am a foreign vendor. You have passed along your warning, and since you are respected, I am sure that many people will pay attention. This thread has successfully completed it's intended mission.

Since you've made your point and presented your views, and I have presented my side of the story (which I believe I have the right to do), I am going to do my best to not post to this thread. I see no point in continuing this because;

1. I really don't think people care to see us argue,
2. Since you think I am a liar, you won't believe anything I post.

I honestly still think that you are a good man who really knows his stuff when it comes to working with Subarus. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two. I am sorry that things came to this, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck in the future, no matter what you do.