Mike Tuckwood

Right it's late in the day, and I've just got round to having another look at this.

I have to confess that I only vaguely remember the matter, though having looked at it this afternoon the mists are clearing. The more they clear the more confused I am about the basis of the actual complaint.

FACTS
xxxxx

Ordered 29/08/02
Full refund to you (less the postage) on 08/11/2002.

The delay was as much due to the gauge travelling to Manchester and back twice while you attempted to repair the damage, (I'll post the pictures tonight from home).

I can't actually understand why we refunded you anything but clearly we did.

Keep your eyes open people, this item will be up for sale on the website tomorrow, ALL the money will go to charity and it will go to the highest bidder, fame will be the prize of the winner with the funniest/wittiest accompanying comment.


Mike.
One (not so careful) owner, used HKS gauge (some parts missing, others totally knackered) available here
Edited to change link to our web site to be a sarcastic one.



[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 11/6/2003 4:54:15 PM]

RichiB

Kippax:

I can't believe you are complaining about an incident that happened a year ago. Especially when you received a full refund after damaging the said gauge What's your problem?

Haven't you got anything better to do than hassle people that are trying to earn an honest living.

Get a life

Rich

[Edited by RichiB - 11/6/2003 5:54:44 PM]

Kippax

hmm what would you suggest. the pipe is consumable and was cut to remove it.

"a butcher".... Been called a lot of things in the past but never that. Either justify that or re-word your sentence.

i suggest you read my previous thread (sorry post) again. you missed the whole lot.


edited to add.

[Edited by Kippax - 11/7/2003 8:35:26 AM]

Mike Tuckwood

OK as promised.

The thing you've got to ask yourself (Everybody except Stuart) is, would you do this to any item and then expect either any sympathy, or a refund?





Note the marks on the rear of this gauge where it has been "engineered" in and out of the car.









This is in NO WAY what anybody could class as a "consumable part"!


Does this look like it's been engineered or butchered?



[This item will be on my web site Scooby Mania later today and will be sold to the highest bidder, in good old ebay fashion it will have an accurate description of the condition of the gauge, all money will go to a charity of the winners choice].


Stuart, as you've made it clear that it's not the money that's important, maybe you would like to get the ball rolling on this auction?


Mike.
Edited 'cos I did the image links wrong.


[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 11/7/2003 10:39:38 AM]

wrxmania

Time to ignore I think - good on you listing it for charity Mike, especially with free postage. Someone obviously has a bee in their bonnet and I would suggest this thread be closed - no more needs to be said, enough mudslinging has been done by both parties, some more than others. The pictures speak for themselves.

I have never bought from Mike so hows about some positive comments on customer service for a company which we all need and would probably miss if it were gone!

[Edited by wrxmania - 11/10/2003 9:57:48 PM]

Kippax

mike, you refer to a "degree of reasonableness" here and suggested i post up so here goes. this is what i find unreasonable:

*sending you numerous emails that were not returned asking for a refund when you had already admitted you had charged my card, sent the wrong item and were now unable to get the right one in stock.

*you saying i dont get to see emails that go to that address. so what happens to emails that say "mike, please respond"? do they just get deleted?

*making 15 plus phone calls (and i mean 15 plus) to be given some of the lamest excuses ive ever heard as to why you are not there or avaliable.

*seeing you find time to post on scoobynet in reply to threads such as "wheres the best place to buy defi gauges" at the SAME TIME as my refund was not being dealt with.

*being made to feel like a finished with customer once my card had been debited and having to post up on scoobynet on someone elses thread/complaint as a last resort to get a response (which worked immediately).

*being made to feel very lucky to get a refund at all and it never once occurring to you to say "sorry, we made a mistake".

BUT, the real p!ss taker was your comments that i shouldnt try to contact you in a public forum and then having the audacity to say i had an attitude problem. i was never impolite to you and i repeat, only posted on an existing thread as a last resort.

you p!ssed me off to the point that the money meant nothing....it was, and still is a matter of principles.

Mike Tuckwood

OK, I haven't pulled the sales@ archived e.mails yet so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll reply accordingly thereafter. It will look less like I'm changing my opinion than if I keep re-editing earlier posts.

You ordered (all this is from memory you understand) an HKS oil temp gauge, we sent oil pressure in error (this culd be the other way round but the principle is the same). You received it but didn't check and spot the error at your end either, even when you pried off the bezel from that gauge and proceeded to fit it!


Now while as I recall I openly conceded that the initial error was generated by us sending the wrong gauge, the problem would have been easily resolved (at no additional cost to you) had you not dismantled that gauge and 'epoxy'ed' your own bezel to it thus making it unsaleable when returned.

I initially made it VERY clear that we would not take the item back if you had dismantled it. You assured me it would easily revert, I said send it back then and if we can "recover" it, we will, when I saw the gauge I disagreed that it could be "made good".

It then returned to you, and you made a half decent repair....... that still left me with a damaged second hand unsaleable gauge.

That is my memory of the incident as I recall it but this goes back a long way, certainly before January 2003.... remind me of your surname and the e.mail address you were using if it's different to your current one (off list please) and I'll check my facts/dates Etc.



Replies to specific points within you points raised above
================================================== =======

The reason for the refund not being done on the spot I think is covered by the sequence of events that you deliberately avoided mentioning in your "complaint". You were made aware that the style of the HKS gauges we had were the last ones of that style. They had an italic typeface and were not obtainable anymore. We couldn't replace the gauge you had damaged as HKS no longer made or sold them.... we tried everywhere without success for some considerable time, even in Japan Australia and America, this also added to the time taken to deal with the issue and was part of the reason we were unable to give you a firm solution during most of your 15 phone calls?

I don't recall seeing them, if they were sent to the sales@ address I wouldn't. This was an issue which was being looked into by a member of my staff... one that you didn't seem want to discuss the matter with, despite it being part of the job that I employ him for, a VERY high percentage of mails that come to the sales@ address have my name in them, most of the phone calls ask for me by name as well, I'm well known but there is only one of me I'm afraid, that is why there is a shop manager who would normally deal with matters initially.

As I said, the circumstances were made such that we would not give you the result you wanted due to your actions, regardless of who you spoke to. I am busy and I employ other people to deal with a whole range of issues with a necessary degree of autonomy, I give them guidance on some matters as I almost certainly did in this instance but it had been made clear that Sean would deal with further issues and represented the company with my authority.

From our side, you had been made aware that your actions were what had made the problem such that you were never going to be happy as you prove at every opportunity. We have other customers to deal with and a business to run, I can't allow that to stop because you couldn't get the result you wanted. If you bought a sofa from MFI, dismantled it and recovered it before realising it was the wrong one, do you think they would have given you a refund?

It would have worked exactly as well as if you had mailed me direct, the only mail I could find from you today said "should I not have heard from you by now" and I have all mail inbound on my direct address since mid 2000.

Now that is simply not true, I personally apologised on the phone to you when it was apparent we had sent the wrong gauge, IIRC it was us that spotted you had the wrong item and that we did not have the right one.

This then was compounded only by what you had done to the gauge yourself. As I recall we did give you a partial refund and without doubt you will hold that it wasn't fast enough. Based on the condition of the gauge that you returned to us (the second time)... I'll check in the morning if necessary but I'll wager we still have it and will never be able to re-sell it because of the condition you left it in?

It happens now and again but we have our own procedures for dealing with this kind of instance, Scoobynet does not form part of that procedure and does not influence our decisions on any matter.

We make mistakes and have openly conceded so where they have occurred, it becomes 'unnecessary' when the situation is deliberately mis-represented when a specific aim is not achieved like a full refund regardless of your own actions. You state you only posted on another thread as a last resort... so what is the motivation behind your continued effort after the issue was resolved? You arry on as if airing your version of events will damage us commercially consequently indulging you in your revenge.

You are probably correct, some will no doubt fall in with you and agree that you were hard done to, regardless of the facts... there is probably some truth in the saying 'if you throw enough mud some will stick'.

Facts are facts but when it appears that you don't get the result you *want* shouting "poor sevice" or "bad customer care" in a public forum may scare us into conceding to your wishes, that will not affect the outcome of any matter of this nature. I genuinely endeavour to be fair in all circumstances and the fact that you are still so clearly aggrieved does not mean that I have been unfair or otherwise.

Your "principles" point are exactly the cause of why you ended up so aggrieved and bitter, the malice is clear and I can do little to resolve that other than has already been done.


And that alone is disappointing. Clearly you will contest probably every minute item I have covered above, I expect little else. If I am factually incorrect though, I will do just as I offered at the start and will re-cover those issues, (but not the sofa) If you contest something above that I know as fact, I will not protract this by arguing with you further on those points.


Mike
Scooby Mania

Kippax

wrong. i ordered a turbo boost gauge and got and oil pressure gauge. they look very very similar and i proceeded to fit it. i put my own custom bezel over the top, not prized of the existing one. what i do with my 'boost' gauge is up to me. if it was an exhaust it was slightly different and i had damaged it trying to fit it, would it be my fault? partially maybe. they all look the same for gods sake.

absolutely not. if you had the whole bloody saga would have ended there. how dare you claim this. wrong. it had not been dismantled it had been installed as you do. look at the gauge. there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with the facia and bezel or any part that is visible.

yes your right. you said it was tough **** basically and you would not accept it. you said it looked **** (your opinion and exact words not mine) and you also would not accept it was half your mistake. if you remember, my suggestion then was that you send the proper gauge to me and i pay half price for it, as i agreed the mistake was half mine. you ignored that idea.

no. the gauge itself was fine. i very carefully removed the custom bezel and sent it all back. just the fitting kit had been used but, when i sourced the correct one from another dealer, i put all the bits (stickers, screws, mounting plate etc) from the new box into the oil gauge box and sent it back. all your missing is the copper feeder pipe. even all the original packaging went in, undamaged.

. wrong. and anyway, these technicalities are irrelevant but you insist we discuss them oh please....you really expect me to believe that you couldnt answer my calls because you were looking round for the correct gauge. you had my money and i was left with a gauge that was useless to me. please give me some credit.

no one else seemed to have the authority to deal with it.

i offered to save you money. you ignored it. not to me it wasnt. it was also the girl who answered the phone on most occasions who put her hand over the reciever each time and after some muffled chat she then told me no one could take the call. i felt quite sorry for her in the end.

if it was the wrong sofa but looked very similar to the one i ordered then yes, i would expect a refund. i could be especially nice about it and accept part fault (like i did with you) and try to come to some kind of agreement but if you send the wrong item its your mistake. and anyway, it absolutely couldnt be your fault could it. this is exactly what im talking about.

so your saying new custom comes first, customer complaints come second.....yep, i thought so.

get the result i wanted. i couldnt get anything at that stage.

wrong. you just talked to me like i was a ***** for not noticing it was the wrong gauge, a mistake you had already made. i noticed it was the wrong gauge when the needle didnt move and notified you.

and why shouldnt i? it was my flippin' gauge. wrong. you gave no partial refund. look at your books.WHICH IS WHY RIGHT AT THE START I OFFERED TO PAY ANOTHER HALF FOR THE PROPER GAUGE AND SEND YOU THE OIL ONE BACK FOR GODS SAKE BUT YOU IGNORED ME. YOU WERE HOPING I WOULD GO AWAY. like i said it just needs the copper pipe.

correct. i was hard done too and moreover, i have done nothing but state the facts.

no of course not. i sit here typing because i have nothing else to do. how many times. i got my money back in the end. THIS IS NOT THE POINT.

really? there is one easy way.

ahh, im in the wrong again. no, because you cant.

mike, i am not an unreasonable person. i bent over backwards to come to some agreement with you so you didnt pay too much for your mistake and me mine. i repeat, i offered to buy the proper gauge from you at half the cost and send you the oil unit back. this way you would have been sent £150 from me, probably about what the gauges would had cost you. you may even have made a profit on them AND had an oil gauge that just needed a new feeder pipe. your reply was "OUR POLICY IS NOT TO SEND OUT GOODS AT HALF PRICE" your loss in the end. after you threw it back in my face, you were COMPLETELY UNCONTACTABLE

edited to add some stuff. nothing was deleted.

[Edited by Kippax - 11/6/2003 12:19:55 PM]

Mike Tuckwood

It's clearly not going to be resolved, we sent you a gauge, (the wrong one).

By the time you let us know, you had made (by your choice) defaced it making it unsaleble. A solution was pursued but we were unable to get the gauge as they were no longer made.

Our mistake could have easily been rectified, we would have taken the gauge back and given a full refund including postage both ways. The SOLE reason this didn't happen was becasue you had defaced and incorrectly installed the gauge making it second hand scratched, unsaleable and with bits missing.

You appear to want me to be responsible for your actions, where I'm only prepared to be responsible for mine.... I fail to see why you think that is unreasonable.

Your gauge is stil here, still in the condition you sent it back in what would you like me to do with it?

I have on numerous occasions now apologised for the error in sending you the wrong item, I can only now speculate that your choice to ignore that as your attempt to imply that we're unreasonble thus justifying your crusade?


Best regards


Mike
Scooby Mania

dominicm

Take a picture of the gauge, we're all interested to see the alledged damage!!

Dom.

Kippax

as in the above post, all it needs is a new feeder pipe. the facia and bezel were completely as new on return. there may be some scratches on the bit that is hidden in the dash, but that is it. if its got any scratches on the bezel, its been done since it left me.

you did in the end so it must have been returnable. either it was returnable, or it wasnt.

1) as stated before it was not defaced.
2) as stated before just
the feeder pipe needs replacing.
3) how dare you insult my ability with this kind of work. i am a mechanical engineer by profession and not only do i have the skills to make a bloody gauge from a lump of metal, i have the qualifications to design the sodding thing as well. my custom bezel was purely a modification to my taste.

this really is all i have ever asked you to do.

dont tempt me

wrong. once at the time and twice in this thread have you ADMITTED sending the wrong item. you have never ever apologised for anything. there is a big difference.

take off a week in the post and a week messing this end (more like 2 days) and we are left with 7 weeks to refund. no wonder i got p!ssed off.

wrong. no damage to repair. the first time it travelled was the first time it was sent the second time was for me simply to lift the bezel off and peel a bit of glue.

and through all of this you STILL fail to see the real point. i dont want a bloody apology for you sending the wrong item. its the complete contempt afterwards when you realised your mistake meant a loss to you. and even when i propsed a compromise you still didn't get it. you just reverted to avoiding me and throwing insults.

mike, when you finally send the item out to the highest bidder, make sure its the right one eh!!

One (not so scrupulous) tuning shop, used only once (some services missing, others totally
inept) available here

edited to add, not delete.

[Edited by Kippax - 11/6/2003 5:42:43 PM]

Mike Tuckwood

This has got NOTHING to do with a loss to me.

Whichever way you look at it, you turned the gauge into something that was unsaleable for what it was. How could I ever sell it in that condition to anyone?

By your own admission the rear of the item is badly marked and gouged, there is a (admittedly very small) nick in the edge of the bezel and you've chopped off the end of the copper capilliary feed pipe with (most likely) a pair of pliers!

Quite why as an 'engineer' you might want to put your name to such butchery is beyond me?

"unscrupulous".... Been called a lot of things in the past but never that. Either justify that or re-word your link.


I CLEARLY recall making an apology for you being supplied the wrong item, though I suppose as this now appears to be the main crux of your complaint it would be pointless to concede that it did happen.



Mike
Scooby Mania

Kippax

yeah yeah yeah...whatever

address the real points mike. the ones potential customers would be interested in. the ones you keep avoiding.

Re. the smokescreeen (sorry, auction). WTF would i want an HKS oil gauge. i didnt need one then and i dont need one now.

have a nice weekend.

stu.

Mike Tuckwood

OK, it looked too complicated to set up an auction styke event, so it's on Ebay. HKS gauge auction

Get bidding people?


Mike
Scooby Mania

timmsky

Jiminy H. Crackers.. if only we could get by without customers...

Get a life Kippax, do the decent thing and admit you f&cked up this time?

Danny B

LOL
1-0 to Mike

willy

Sounds like a typical city fan....LOL
I`m surrounded by them at work...

This is funny cos you`ve both got points to prove.
A refund has been given... I cant see any further problem, I would have been happy with that...


*****

chiark

A full refund has been given and, by the looks of it, a long time ago?

Should I close this? I've had two rtms suggesting that this will turn into more of a slagging match. I'm tempted to leave it as anything for charity is good . (PS - there's a user called Trouser22b who was winning but has now been outbid. Wonder who that was???)

Cheers,
Nick.

Kippax

if more than 20 attempts to contact scoobymania over the period of a month (while scoobymania were in posession of both the gauge and the money) is acceptable, then clearly i have over estimated what should be expected from a supplier.

if the only way for an eventual refund was posting on a public forum then i suspect this will not be the last thread of
this nature.

Mike Tuckwood

For the life of me I still do not understand why we gave you your money back at all!


Mike.

Trouser @TSL

Nick.. i thought the charity thing was a nice touch!

Golden

Do you know what, I don't own a Scooby, can't stand the things, I drive a VW, but I came across this thread via the Ebay sale and signed up just to say I am a highly qualified motor vehicle engineer and want to know the following.

If Kippax thinks he's an "engineer" what the hell is he doing confusing a boost gauge with an oil pressure gauge?

Secondly what did he use to fit that gauge? A hammer!

Kippax

golden, evidently i'm not the only one to confuse the gauges. they do look similar. however i apologise for making this dreadful mistake

the gauge was being fitted into a very tight facia, hence the damage to the paint. the pliers were used a bit like a hacksaw is used in the motor trade to cut the brake pipe brackets to remove old dampers and fit new ones. saves bleeding the brakes you see.

i hope you can forgive me....if you actually exist that is.

trouser, i think i remember who your are now. i am the dude who took a big detour to TSL for the stickers a few months back on my way to southampton from manchester. after you assured me you had them in your hand, it turned out they were incomplete and not the right ones. but, you were polite and apologetic so i accepted your apology and went on my way. did i seem unreasonable to you?

mike, you refunded because i posted on scoobynet. you also said dont worry about the pipe and the damage as long as the purple bezel is OK. i was wrong to claim there was "no damage" in a prevoius post. no visable damage once fitted or damage detrimetal to operation is what i meant.

you have still managed not to address the real issues very well i hand it to you for that.

stu.

Golden

I can assure you I do exist.

7 Foot

Mike - my hat is off to you mate. An hilarious read.

Kippax - drop it, you have been totally outgunned.

Kippax

ok then. i will bid on ebay, £108.96 (the original cost of the gauge) subject to the following conditions:

1) the proceeds are given to a cancer charity of my choice

2) i get to make the donation (and will provide evidence that this has been done)

3) mike explains to me why (after 2 weeks of postage and butchery) i spent 7 weeks phoning and emailing scoobymania to remind them to refund my credit card as promised?

stu.

john coffey

The mind boggles

willy

Dog with a bone springs to mind?

Kippax

john, let me make it clearer for you. i realised the gauge could no be resold the day i got it (and fitted/damaged it). thats why i suggested mike and i come to some arrangement (read my post).

my solution was not a refund based on the very arguement mike has used to such amusement to us all.

Mike Tuckwood

Stuart, your suggestion to remedy what you did to that gauge was to send you the correct gauge at half price!

So you turn a £108.00 brand new gauge into a £16.00 gauge (which is how much the gauge made for the NSPCC on the Ebay auction), by your own hand. Then you want a full refund, a public apology on top of the one you had at the time (for sending you the wrong gauge), and a brand new gauge at half price!
Like I say, i'm still at a loss why you got a refund AT ALL.

But, there you go, you did and you didn't see me on here at the time crying because of what you had done, that had cused me a far greater loss than the one I had caused you.

Remember, YOU started this thread, I had not disclosed to anybody exactly what a pigs ear of the whole situation that YOU had caused, but felt it was giving the wrong impression of what we are like generally.

I've openly admitted our initial mistake, You DID receive an apology from us for sending the wrong gauge when it was spotted regardless of your self serving denial contrary to that.

I really don't know what your problem is now, but I suspect there is no solution.
If you want to contribute towards the payment I will be sending to the NSPCC next week, I'd be happy to include with the payment I am sending and acknowledge such on here.

Other than that I hope that everybody (except you probably Stuart) will see that I have tried my best to be nothing short of 100% open and far more even handed about this than maybe I ought to have been?

I do not want to curb your right to an opinion at all, (which is why I have not and would not ask for this thread to be locked or moderated), except where it is based on a lie, a mis-truth, a half truth or other. This falls WELL into the category that will not prompt an additional apology, and I'm sure everyone except you should now be able to see why.

Please feel free to continue, I see no point in commenting further as I feel the facts above tell their own story.


Mike.
Scooby Mania