WARRANTY HOLDINGS - Have you had this problem?
24 January 2003, 10:18 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before Xmas, slowed down for a motorway roundabout in my Sti5. and KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK! Many of you posted some good advice on here a while back, cheers.
Before they'd inspect it, WARRANTY HOLDINGS wanted to see the sevice history (which was fully up to date and complete) then two days ago, sent an "independent" assessor down to inspect the car, who noticed that the pressure relief valve in the oil pump had
stuck open and verbally aportioned blame for the engine failing to this fault.
This am, i get a call saying that actually, the oil had aerated (airated?) so obviously it had run low on oil at some point which was most likely to have caused the failure. Pushed harder, he admitted to the pump problem buut says that its not a "sudden failure" and therefore not covered as it "may" have happened over a period of time.
Now, not wanting to compromise what may become a very messy court case, i won't express my feelings about a company that is happy to take £620 off me for this cover, but will apparaently find any way out of honouring a claim.
The long and short is that they're splitting hairs, but it IS contract law so i need a clear idea of how to move forward.
So, advice please gents? I know a number of folks have had a similar experience, and heard mention of "unfair contract" and class actions etc etc.
I've instructed the garage to carry out repairs but would welcome any advice from those that have successfully challenged their decision.
Thanks in advance.
Russ
Before they'd inspect it, WARRANTY HOLDINGS wanted to see the sevice history (which was fully up to date and complete) then two days ago, sent an "independent" assessor down to inspect the car, who noticed that the pressure relief valve in the oil pump had
stuck open and verbally aportioned blame for the engine failing to this fault.
This am, i get a call saying that actually, the oil had aerated (airated?) so obviously it had run low on oil at some point which was most likely to have caused the failure. Pushed harder, he admitted to the pump problem buut says that its not a "sudden failure" and therefore not covered as it "may" have happened over a period of time.
Now, not wanting to compromise what may become a very messy court case, i won't express my feelings about a company that is happy to take £620 off me for this cover, but will apparaently find any way out of honouring a claim.
The long and short is that they're splitting hairs, but it IS contract law so i need a clear idea of how to move forward.
So, advice please gents? I know a number of folks have had a similar experience, and heard mention of "unfair contract" and class actions etc etc.
I've instructed the garage to carry out repairs but would welcome any advice from those that have successfully challenged their decision.
Thanks in advance.
Russ
24 January 2003, 10:30 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A warranty from these scumbags isn't worth the paper it's written on. As you say there has been a fair amount of discussion about them, and the general flavour is that they very rarely pay out. They used to be owned by some Arab sheikh but are now owned by Ford, I thought they might clean their act up a bit, but apparently not.
I had an STi 5 and had the same kind of problem. In my case I'd not exceeded the mileage for a service but had gone a week over the 6 month time limit. I'd phoned a few garages up but there was a couple of weeks wait before I could get a slot booked up, and though you can not drive your car to avoid putting miles on you can't stop time.
Unless your the type of person who can stick a reminder sheet to your steering wheel with a "How to avoid invalidating my warranty" list (and live by it) it's probably not worth bothering with one of these policies.
I'll certainly never own a vehicle again that doesn't have a manufacturers warranty.
In your case though I'd give them hell. Something went wrong, you didn't know about it, it then caused an engine failure. What are warranties for after all?
I had an STi 5 and had the same kind of problem. In my case I'd not exceeded the mileage for a service but had gone a week over the 6 month time limit. I'd phoned a few garages up but there was a couple of weeks wait before I could get a slot booked up, and though you can not drive your car to avoid putting miles on you can't stop time.
Unless your the type of person who can stick a reminder sheet to your steering wheel with a "How to avoid invalidating my warranty" list (and live by it) it's probably not worth bothering with one of these policies.
I'll certainly never own a vehicle again that doesn't have a manufacturers warranty.
In your case though I'd give them hell. Something went wrong, you didn't know about it, it then caused an engine failure. What are warranties for after all?
24 January 2003, 10:33 AM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They will find ANY excuse wont they! As it is an original manufacturers part which has not been tampered with they really do not have a leg to stand on. Oil pressure relief valve sticking in the open position is not a fault which occurs over a period of time. As soon as it happens the engine will go pop. Best thing to do is to consult a solicitor and maybe get another qualified mechanic who has nothing to do with the SO CALLED warranty co, to give you his opinion. This would probably stand up better in the court of law. DO all the research you can re this. Get a letter from Suabru re the oil pump as it should NOT go wrong in the way it did and it is not a fault which occurs over a period of time.
As long as your service history is up to date and the car had no modifications then im afraid Warranty holdings will HAVE to pay out.
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 1/24/2003 10:37:32 AM]
As long as your service history is up to date and the car had no modifications then im afraid Warranty holdings will HAVE to pay out.
Gez
[Edited by Gez - 1/24/2003 10:37:32 AM]
24 January 2003, 12:27 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gez is right - an independent engineer should produce a report for you, and it sounds like that report will confirm that the warranty does cover the failure.
I also have a WH warranty, and I have just made a successful claim on it. My problem was that the car had started to jump out of 2nd gear when changing down in press-on motoring. This started to happen one year into the warranty, and got more frequent over a six month period, until it was becoming necessary to hold 2nd gear in place - and I was starting to get some nasty vibrations through the stick.
I went back to Neil Howe, MD of Japanese Imports Direct of Bristol, who sold me the car and the warranty. I told him of the evil rep. that WH have, and his view was that a lot of the failed claims happen because the seller has 'used up' their allocation of warranty work with WH (so if a particular dealer has an above average number of warranty claims, his 'pot' gets emptied and then WH won't pay up).
Whether this is true I have no way of knowing, but in my case it seems all to have gone OK. Neil had a word with Protech in Nailsea who do their servicing/repairs, and Nick at Protech spent four hours on the phone to WH and eventually got their OK for £1,000 of work, including new 2nd gear and other parts to the tune of £500. The cover was incomplete - I had to pay some of the labour costs because there's a limit of £1,000 per claim. Fair enough, that was in the policy document. The result is that I was able to get a clutch change done for parts-only at the same time.
Impreza ownership ain't cheap, and all insurance companies are like bankers - the collective noun for them is a 'wunch'. But maybe there is some truth to this idea about allocations of warranty money per dealer? Might be interesting to plot successful and unsuccessful claims against dealer who sold warranty!
I also have a WH warranty, and I have just made a successful claim on it. My problem was that the car had started to jump out of 2nd gear when changing down in press-on motoring. This started to happen one year into the warranty, and got more frequent over a six month period, until it was becoming necessary to hold 2nd gear in place - and I was starting to get some nasty vibrations through the stick.
I went back to Neil Howe, MD of Japanese Imports Direct of Bristol, who sold me the car and the warranty. I told him of the evil rep. that WH have, and his view was that a lot of the failed claims happen because the seller has 'used up' their allocation of warranty work with WH (so if a particular dealer has an above average number of warranty claims, his 'pot' gets emptied and then WH won't pay up).
Whether this is true I have no way of knowing, but in my case it seems all to have gone OK. Neil had a word with Protech in Nailsea who do their servicing/repairs, and Nick at Protech spent four hours on the phone to WH and eventually got their OK for £1,000 of work, including new 2nd gear and other parts to the tune of £500. The cover was incomplete - I had to pay some of the labour costs because there's a limit of £1,000 per claim. Fair enough, that was in the policy document. The result is that I was able to get a clutch change done for parts-only at the same time.
Impreza ownership ain't cheap, and all insurance companies are like bankers - the collective noun for them is a 'wunch'. But maybe there is some truth to this idea about allocations of warranty money per dealer? Might be interesting to plot successful and unsuccessful claims against dealer who sold warranty!
24 January 2003, 01:35 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd agree with anything bad that people say about WH!
when my STi went bang a couple of years ago (big end bearings), the warranty had already been invalidated by the previous owner missing a service (grrrr).
I wanted to take action against the dealer, who had represented the car as having a full service history (and he should have known as he also managed the fleet for the previous owner).
So I asked WH whether they would have honoured the warranty if the service hadn't been missed.....
they said "no, as this is a common thing on Imprezas, so we consider it a design fault"
so WTF is the point of having a WH warranty then?!
when my STi went bang a couple of years ago (big end bearings), the warranty had already been invalidated by the previous owner missing a service (grrrr).
I wanted to take action against the dealer, who had represented the car as having a full service history (and he should have known as he also managed the fleet for the previous owner).
So I asked WH whether they would have honoured the warranty if the service hadn't been missed.....
they said "no, as this is a common thing on Imprezas, so we consider it a design fault"
so WTF is the point of having a WH warranty then?!
24 January 2003, 02:51 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seeing the solicitor monday, armed with all the info, but also did a search on here. Loads of folks hhave had the same as me - the engineer (read loss adjuster)says "Hmmm, looks like an oil pump failure" to the technician, then goes back and writes down "low oil".
Or its a "manufacturing fault" or "poor servicing" or "wear and tear" etc etc
Oil pump pressure relief valve is, according to the Gob ****e at WH,is a "gradual fault" causing long term exessive wear, as it may only have stuck open a "bit". Then he tells me that even a pound or two could trash the engine. As slippery as an eel coated in vaseline.
I'm getting my own report done, plus referred it to WatchDog with links to all thr threads on here that illustrate the problems people are having God knows how big th eproblem is, maybe i'll check the other boards too. WH claim to be the largest warranty co. in europe. I'm a vindictive b4stard when people try to screw me and i'l ltake this all the way thru court.
And the best bit.......? 20 Minutes ago, i get Gob ****e 2 on the telephone telling me my warranty runs out next week and do i want to renew it....! Funniest thing i've heard all day
I thought it was a mate winding me up!
I wouldn't use them again and lets just say that the bloke on the phone was left in no doubt about that.
Russ
Or its a "manufacturing fault" or "poor servicing" or "wear and tear" etc etc
Oil pump pressure relief valve is, according to the Gob ****e at WH,is a "gradual fault" causing long term exessive wear, as it may only have stuck open a "bit". Then he tells me that even a pound or two could trash the engine. As slippery as an eel coated in vaseline.
I'm getting my own report done, plus referred it to WatchDog with links to all thr threads on here that illustrate the problems people are having God knows how big th eproblem is, maybe i'll check the other boards too. WH claim to be the largest warranty co. in europe. I'm a vindictive b4stard when people try to screw me and i'l ltake this all the way thru court.
And the best bit.......? 20 Minutes ago, i get Gob ****e 2 on the telephone telling me my warranty runs out next week and do i want to renew it....! Funniest thing i've heard all day
I thought it was a mate winding me up!I wouldn't use them again and lets just say that the bloke on the phone was left in no doubt about that.
Russ
Trending Topics
25 January 2003, 10:23 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Scoobysport, Basildon, UK
Posts: 4,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russ
I have seen this so many times, especially with this company. In a heated argument with them, some years ago, I mentioned that I was the chairman of the Subaru Impreza Drivers Club and would be advising all of our members not to touch their warranty.
"Fine" he said "Subarus are a pain the **** for us".
The "lack of oil", "oil aeration", "wear and tear", "manufacturing fault" etc are common reasons for rejections and all difficult to prove either way. A decent solicitor may be able to negotiate some settlement, but it will take a long time and may just be throwing good money after bad.
Another thing to watch is that they insist you have any failed parts completely stripped for inspection. This stripping has to be done at your cost and is not reimbursable. For an engine or gearbox, this could be quite a sum even though the engine/box may be totally scrap and would normally just go into the skip. Also, they will only pay £28 per hour at the time allowances they allow. So should the claim be approved, you will normally end up paying 30%-50% of the final labour bill yourself.
My advise to anyone thinking of buying their warranty is to put the money on a horse. £500 on a rank outsider will give you more chance of seeing a return and will be more enjoyable. If the horse loses, you are in exactly the same situation as having bought the warranty, if it wins you can stick the money in a 90 day account and hope you never need to spend it.
I have seen this so many times, especially with this company. In a heated argument with them, some years ago, I mentioned that I was the chairman of the Subaru Impreza Drivers Club and would be advising all of our members not to touch their warranty.
"Fine" he said "Subarus are a pain the **** for us".
The "lack of oil", "oil aeration", "wear and tear", "manufacturing fault" etc are common reasons for rejections and all difficult to prove either way. A decent solicitor may be able to negotiate some settlement, but it will take a long time and may just be throwing good money after bad.
Another thing to watch is that they insist you have any failed parts completely stripped for inspection. This stripping has to be done at your cost and is not reimbursable. For an engine or gearbox, this could be quite a sum even though the engine/box may be totally scrap and would normally just go into the skip. Also, they will only pay £28 per hour at the time allowances they allow. So should the claim be approved, you will normally end up paying 30%-50% of the final labour bill yourself.
My advise to anyone thinking of buying their warranty is to put the money on a horse. £500 on a rank outsider will give you more chance of seeing a return and will be more enjoyable. If the horse loses, you are in exactly the same situation as having bought the warranty, if it wins you can stick the money in a 90 day account and hope you never need to spend it.
25 January 2003, 12:12 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,580
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I glad I didn't upgrade the warranty on mine when I bought it 
They just chucked in the free up to £500 in any claim on mine, offered me an upgrade to the value of the car for an extra £300 IIRC.
Didn't even bother trying to claim when the MAF blew, easier to change it myself anyway.
Hope you get this sorted Russ
They just chucked in the free up to £500 in any claim on mine, offered me an upgrade to the value of the car for an extra £300 IIRC.
Didn't even bother trying to claim when the MAF blew, easier to change it myself anyway.
Hope you get this sorted Russ
30 January 2003, 08:13 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
Yep Warranty holdings.
4 yrs ago I owned a heavily modded WRX jap import. Bought it from a car dealer that I knew well and had purchased cars from before. He threw in the £1000 WH package with max claims limit blah blah blah.
4 months later, I was sat at a set of lights and on green I engaged first gear and pulled away in a normal manner. BANG BANG BANG, **** I thought and changed into 2nd. No problem. Carried on driving. Later I pulled into a car park and had to engage first again andBANG BANG BANG, I figured with my limited CAR knowledge that first gear had gone faulty. I drove to a local garage I used for servicing etc and they informed me that it sounded like a cog had dropped off firs t gear. I informed them that I had WH cover and they set about calling WH and stripping down the gearbox ready for when the engineer arrived. When the engineer did arrive the garage showed him the stripped down gearbox and the first gear with 2 teeth missing and 2 that were fractured. Firstly the engineer didn't believe that the 1st was from that car as he did not see it come out of the gear box (TOSSER).
I then called WH and had a blazing row when them on the phone because:
Basically they said that the gearbox had been abused. I said I only had had the car for 4 months an in no way did I abuse the gearbox. they implied that I had changed gear without using the clutch and this damaged the gearbox. I went back to my garage and they said that even if I did do this, the way the gearbox is designed this wouldn't happen anyway, and they set about writing me a report. Sent the report to WH and they called me. Still they would not honour the repair. They then said that if I didn't abuse the car then it MUST have been the previous owner. I said the car was an import and HOW could they blaim Mr Jap for abusing the car and then have the cheek to slap a warranty on the car for the U owner and then turn doen all claims based on the fact that they can blaim the previous owner for abusing the car.
F**K it. This went on for weeks and weeks. In the end I got my garage to buy a new cog for first gear and rebuild the gearbox (£500 in all in).
I gave up on WH... working full time on the road just does not give you the time or energy to FIGHT these companies and win. They will always find some excuse not to pay out. I'd rather put some money away every month into a high interest account and call it my repair fund. Anyhow, I've got proper Subaru warranty now, so lets hope that they never let me down if I need to use it.
Mark.
4 yrs ago I owned a heavily modded WRX jap import. Bought it from a car dealer that I knew well and had purchased cars from before. He threw in the £1000 WH package with max claims limit blah blah blah.
4 months later, I was sat at a set of lights and on green I engaged first gear and pulled away in a normal manner. BANG BANG BANG, **** I thought and changed into 2nd. No problem. Carried on driving. Later I pulled into a car park and had to engage first again andBANG BANG BANG, I figured with my limited CAR knowledge that first gear had gone faulty. I drove to a local garage I used for servicing etc and they informed me that it sounded like a cog had dropped off firs t gear. I informed them that I had WH cover and they set about calling WH and stripping down the gearbox ready for when the engineer arrived. When the engineer did arrive the garage showed him the stripped down gearbox and the first gear with 2 teeth missing and 2 that were fractured. Firstly the engineer didn't believe that the 1st was from that car as he did not see it come out of the gear box (TOSSER).
I then called WH and had a blazing row when them on the phone because:
Basically they said that the gearbox had been abused. I said I only had had the car for 4 months an in no way did I abuse the gearbox. they implied that I had changed gear without using the clutch and this damaged the gearbox. I went back to my garage and they said that even if I did do this, the way the gearbox is designed this wouldn't happen anyway, and they set about writing me a report. Sent the report to WH and they called me. Still they would not honour the repair. They then said that if I didn't abuse the car then it MUST have been the previous owner. I said the car was an import and HOW could they blaim Mr Jap for abusing the car and then have the cheek to slap a warranty on the car for the U owner and then turn doen all claims based on the fact that they can blaim the previous owner for abusing the car.
F**K it. This went on for weeks and weeks. In the end I got my garage to buy a new cog for first gear and rebuild the gearbox (£500 in all in).
I gave up on WH... working full time on the road just does not give you the time or energy to FIGHT these companies and win. They will always find some excuse not to pay out. I'd rather put some money away every month into a high interest account and call it my repair fund. Anyhow, I've got proper Subaru warranty now, so lets hope that they never let me down if I need to use it.
Mark.
31 January 2003, 05:26 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: West Byfleet, Surrey
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's criminal that companies like this can continue to trade.
I had a Focus with a WH warranty, but the garage I bought it from always did the warranty repairs themselves, which I thought was a bit weird. Now I think I know why.
I had a Focus with a WH warranty, but the garage I bought it from always did the warranty repairs themselves, which I thought was a bit weird. Now I think I know why.
06 February 2003, 04:58 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep - same type of thing happened to me 5 years ago with WH. Had a failure of a turbo (can't remember reason) and they tried everything to get out of the claim. I got it repaired myself, but continued the fight against WH, threatened them with legal action etc etc, and eventually got their money after about 4 months.
I had to deal with muppets at the end of the phone, and all they did was read off a list of excuses, which is what they still seem to be doing now judging by this thread.
Just keep plugging away at them, and threaten them legally, and eventually you will wear the b@st@rds down !!
Cheers,
G
I had to deal with muppets at the end of the phone, and all they did was read off a list of excuses, which is what they still seem to be doing now judging by this thread.
Just keep plugging away at them, and threaten them legally, and eventually you will wear the b@st@rds down !!
Cheers,
G
19 September 2003, 11:26 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
19 September 2003, 12:32 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russ,
Info only really, I had a oil relief valve go on my Opal Manta !! (many years back now), it stuck open and the engine seized pretty much straight away (within 10 miles anyway)!!!, had a years warranty with the garage I bought from (Vauxhall main agent), they basically said get lost ! so off to small claims court we went took them all the way to the door and they settled in full just before we went into the room to meet the judge bloke !, moral of the story, these type of place rely on you just giving up. DON'T ! take em for all you can...
Good luck..
Ian
Info only really, I had a oil relief valve go on my Opal Manta !! (many years back now), it stuck open and the engine seized pretty much straight away (within 10 miles anyway)!!!, had a years warranty with the garage I bought from (Vauxhall main agent), they basically said get lost ! so off to small claims court we went took them all the way to the door and they settled in full just before we went into the room to meet the judge bloke !, moral of the story, these type of place rely on you just giving up. DON'T ! take em for all you can...
Good luck..
Ian
19 September 2003, 12:43 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best suggestion is get an independent engineers report then take it to arbitration, as the main warranty company simply pay the independent assessors they use to find any excuse to get out of any claim, seen it far too may times and never advise anyone to deal with them.
19 September 2003, 01:24 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a Warranty Holdings warranty. I had an o2 sensor went. They had it replaced immediately no hassle no worries, done deal.
Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but I had read a lot of bad stuff about WH, but so far they have been spot on with me.
Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but I had read a lot of bad stuff about WH, but so far they have been spot on with me.
19 September 2003, 09:10 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My previous car (306 XSi) came with a WHA warranty. They were a royal pain in the **** to deal with.
My problem was that my central locking motor had to be replaced on one side. Paugeot had changed their wiring at some point, and in order to fit the (old) part the garage had, they needed to do some rewiring. WHA tried to stitch me up saying that the part wasn't covered by warranty since it was a non-standard part! The cheek of it! Anyway, after much arguing, many letters and quite some time - they eventually paid up.
I wouldn't recommend anyone, anywhere - to buy a warranty from Warranty Holdings.
My problem was that my central locking motor had to be replaced on one side. Paugeot had changed their wiring at some point, and in order to fit the (old) part the garage had, they needed to do some rewiring. WHA tried to stitch me up saying that the part wasn't covered by warranty since it was a non-standard part! The cheek of it! Anyway, after much arguing, many letters and quite some time - they eventually paid up.
I wouldn't recommend anyone, anywhere - to buy a warranty from Warranty Holdings.
21 September 2003, 04:54 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm EXTREMELY close to getting the matter sorted now - so i'm biting my tongue at the moment..... :smile: (isn't that what i said back in February...?)
I'll tell my story soon, once the case is concluded.
Regards
Russ
I'll tell my story soon, once the case is concluded.
Regards
Russ
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
28
28 December 2015 11:07 PM
Mattybr5@MB Developments
Full Cars Breaking For Spares
12
18 November 2015 07:03 AM
