Trout

iTrader: (1)

My needs are thus: -

stop having consistent network issues with DHCP - it is better but there are clearly problems with both my router and my Macbook Airport - especially in this combination.

to have a wireless network extended throughout a large house with thick walls and out to my garden office

to have shared printer access

to have extensive network storage to include Time Machine, shared storage between Mac and Windows machines

limitation is that the broadband entry point (where my router and modem is) is physically some distance away from where my printer and potential shared storage is.


With my basic understanding I now believe that the best solution may be two Airport Extremes working in wireless bridged mode.

Airport 1 attached to modem at ADSL entry point.

Airport 2 is co-located with printer and storage on USB hub. Creating shared printer and an 'airdisk'.

Will this work? Thoughts from cleverer Apple fanboys than me!

Markus

First glance says "YES" it will work. I've got an older Airport Extreme base station and it's connected to my switch, but had previously been wired into my router directly. It provides the main wireless network in my house and also acts as a DHCP server.

I have an airport express in the living room, it's configured to extend the primary network, and I've got my xbox connected to it, thus allowing me to stream media to the xbox over wifi.

As said, sounds like you would configure the first extreme to be the main wifi network, and probably dhcp server, you'd set "WDS mode" to "WDS main" (that's what mine is set to) you would then configure the other one's wireless mode to "Participate in a WDS network" (WDS mode would be "WDS remote") and it would thus extend the primary network.

Hopefully that makes sense.

What I really hope is that if you do go this route it'll fix your network issues. If at all possible, try and get some kind of return policy on the airports so that you can return for a full refund within 30 days, that should hopefully give you enough time to see if it does indeed address the issue. I'd hate for you to get the kit and still see the issue and be out of pocket because of it, plus it'd nark you right off, understandably so too.

JackClark

Setup is now much simpler using plain terms, the second Airport will detect the first and ask if you'd like to extend the network. If you buy new then the airports can talk to each other on 5ghz whilst creating a more usual 2.4ghz Network. It's not cheap, that's for sure.

ScoobyDoo555

I use both Airport & Extreme - works really well fwiw

Also tied in with other routers & switches.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

So if it will work 'wirelessly' with a non-Apple wireless router I could

use my existing modem/wireless router as I know it has the range and penetration to reach my printer/storage area where I also have a wireless range extender,

use the Airport Extreme instead of the range extender,

and as DHCP server,

and as network controller for the storage and printer,

turn off DHCP in my original router (I know the modem and wireless bits work OK [famous last words])


How does that sound?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

...and Markus - I appreciate your comments - this solution provides me with extensive additional functionality.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Hmm - apparently this network is not for mixing -

hodgy0_2

any reason why you can't bury a lan cable to the office in the garden (you could even put an wireless access point at the end of it -- to give you both wirelss and a lan connection in the office)

also, in technology terms, wireless is (in my view) always best used as an extension to a wired network -- it never works as a replacement very well

can't you wire the two wirless access points together -- get a proper cabling company in, you would be amazed at what they can do

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Connect one of these bad boys to your network, and the walls won't be a problem!!

Xirrus: Switching Without Wires - Products - XN4/XS4 Wi-Fi Array

JackClark

Liking those Andy, pricey?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Hi Hodg,

the network is not mission critical and so I think wireless is robust enough. To cable from the DSL entry point to the garden office would be at least 30m to be dug in.

In the house itself - from the DSL entry point to the house 'office' area is 15m through 250 year old walls.

I think the Airport solution is by far the cheapest solution (assuming it will work!). I need to buy a new router anyway as I cannot get my current router to provide a stable DHCP service. And it that ain't fixed one of my laptops may accidently be 'dropped' in frustration - far more expensive than any of the solutions.

Andy,

I am liking your thinking although not as well designed as an Airport Extreme

Trout

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I have now picked up two Extremes - will be installing soon

It occurred to me that actually I needed an Express and an Extreme. The Express to be WDS Main and connect to the DSL modem, and the Extreme to be my network hub.

Not sure I can be arsed to plough through the snow to change it

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Installation a complete FAIL!!!

I cannot for the life of me get my modem/router to work purely as a modem.

The Aiport keeps getting an IP error on the ethernet connection

I didn't have much hair to start with!

Markus

What make/model is the modem/router?

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

The "baby" one retails for around £1500!!

That said, it will easily replace 4-6 traditional APs in a wireless deployment.

Key selling points are range, coverage and capacity.

The baby one will be able cover Olympia as an example, but that's an open area!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Hi Markus,

I have tried two different modems - when I connect the AEBS gives self-assigned IP address on the Ethernet connection

The primary router I am trying is the Netgear DG834GT which can be put onto modem only mode (hidden menu). In theory the AEBS should not need an IP address to connect to the DG834GT - this is correct yes?

However when configuring the AEBS it states that nothing is attached to the WAN socket!!!

Sometimes I do get it to connect I am not sure what IP address I should be using here. I have been researching Google until my eyes bleed - experience is mixed from AEBS cannot work with DG834GT; to I got it work; to extremely complex configurations on Port Forwarding and DMZ!!!!


If I connect my Macbook to the DG834GT in modem mode, via the Ethernet cable, I cannot get any internet access.

If I do the same with the HomeHub I can get internet access.

The result with the AEBS is the same.

Hmmmm

Markus

Silly question, I assume that in Airport Utility you have clicked on AEBS and then clicked the Manual Setup option?

I think it should require an IP address, mine certainly has one assigned to it, though my setup is slightly different as I've got static addresses and my main AEBS has been assigned one of those static addresses.

Here's what the "Internet" section of the manual config for my AEBS looks like (it is an earlier model than the one you have)



I'm thinking that perhaps the modem/router will need DHCP enabled, to at least provide an address to the AEBS. I can't think how else it would get an address from the modem/router and if it cannot get an address, then I don't see how it can communicate with the modem/router.

Markus

Another silly question. Is the modem/router wifi capable and if so, you're not trying to get the AEBS to extend/be a part of the existing network are you?

If you are then you could consider turning off the wireless side of the modem/router and let the AEBS' be the primary provider for wifi access.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Hi Markus,

all good questions for which I hope I have sensible answers.

I made some progress - the AEBS has a Green light on the front!!! However the DG834GT would not finally configure as the AEBS would not validate the router IP address (although I suppose in modem mode it is not a router anymore) even though the address was correct. Even with the green light - I could get no internet traffic on either the HomeHub or the GT. Also my ISP has dynamic IP addressing.

The AEBS is in 'Create Wireless Network Mode' and I had turned off the wireless.

Anyway after months of incredible frustration the DG834GT dropped my IP address for the last time. After ten minutes of repeated dropping I have modified it so that it cannot drop an IP address ever again!

I am now using my original BT Home Hub which has WDS on it so I may do a short term of using the Home Hub and then have the AEBS in extend a wireless network mode to provide my core wireless backbone in the house.

The HomeHub on it's own does not have anything like the range of the DG834GT - I just hope after all this the AEBS does!! Although I am hoping that in .11n mode between the two AEBSs that will give me the range.

Am resting after the fun of two hours of non-configuration.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

For the internet connection, I assume the IP address is the (static) IP address of your ISP?

What do I put here if my ISP has dynamic IP addressing?

Markus

It is one of the static addresses in my IP range. I have a block of six or eight addresses (I think it's eight but I can only use six of them, one is known as the broadcast address, not sure about the other one - could be the one assigned to the modem/router)

I think what you would do in your case is to either set it to DHCP, or set it to manual and enter an address from the DHCP range the modem/router is providing.

My understanding is that in what I'd term a "normal" setup, eg; dynamic address from ISP, the setup would be:

Modem/Router -> Ethernet Cable -> Computer

The Modem/Router is configured as a DHCP server and thus the computer is assigned an address by the modem/router.

You could of course replace things in this setup:

Modem/Router -> Ethernet Cable -> AEBS

In this setup the AEBS would get a DHCP address from the Modem/Router.

One other question for you. Which ethernet port have you been plugging the modem/router into? There should be two, a WAN and LAN port, and I think they are marked as such. Pretty sure it would need to be the WAN port.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again for your help.

The cable was definitely plugged into the WAN port. It is clearly marked.

What I was trying to do was get the AEBS base to be my DHCP server to get away from the problems I had been having with the GT, and convert the GT to be a pure modem.

I am now very confused as the AEBS needs a modem and a router to drive it? Seems a bizarre configuration to me!!

Also any thoughts on NAT?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I just read this and want to cry



I recently purchase an Airport Extreme to get the 'N' coverage my Home Hub doesn't provide. As I have BT Vision (works very, very well) I couldn't scrape my Home Hub.

I have a number of computers that need to hang of this not least my XBOX 360 and PS3 (bluray player not games machine note) so I approached this with a little trepidation. My computers are a mixture of Wintel PC's and Laptops + 3 MAC's (note each also runs Vista).

Advice from my friendly MAC shop was just to use the supplied Airport config program.

This worked a dream allowing me to setup both my hub and new Airport Extreme auto configuring bridge mode and giving me the option of shutting down my Home hub wireless.

In the end I selected the option for my Extreme to just support 'N' and the Homehub to support the rest.

All worked first time.....

Re-booting my MacBook Pro into Vista mode I was immediately able to connect to my Airport Extreme. All works a dream...

Thanks Apple for making it so simple.....

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Back to basics.

BT HomeHub working a treat - is a little range limited.

Reset AEBS to factory settings. Went into the Configuration tool and thought that I would automatically create a profile to 'replace' the HomeHub.

It found my network and created a profile.

All good.

Except it created a connect by Ethernet profile of 169.254.40.120.

I am at a loss.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Did I tell you where I live...

Trout

iTrader: (1)

It *may* be that I have just been unlucky as I have been doing lots of Googling on the various forums and there are two key themes...

The Netgear DG834GT does not seem to as standard pass the internet connection through to the ethernet ports. There may be ways of doing it as there are a couple of reports of people having made it work but they did not report their configuration.

There are far more reports of people having problems getting their HomeHub to work with any Apple wireless devices than not. The general recommendation on the Apple forums is dump the HH and get an ADSL modem instead. Also, although the HH supports WDS, it is not compatible with Apple products. There are some examples of getting the HH to work with TC or AEBS but few and far between and not in a configuration that suits my needs.

So it is kind of back to square one.

At least the HH is far more stable than my Netgear router - no dropped connections, no IP/DHCP issues. Shame I can only use it in two rooms of my house!

The other problem I have found is that the APU cannot find the AEBS once I have configured it. Again I am not alone - some other poor sucker took six hours of wireless and ethernet connection attempts to get the APU to connect to his Time Capsule!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I am now posting from my Macbook using the Airport Extreme!!!

There you go!

However it is far from my desired configuration. One of the objectives was to use the AEBS as my DHCP server. This has not been possible - I am using the HH as my DHCP server.

I also used the APU autoconfiguration and have turned off the HH wireless myself.

So I selected

Create a New network

Use the ADSL router DHCP

And hey presto it works.

Seems like a complete waste of functionality in the AEBS to me!

So there you have it!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think this is what I need to get a proper modem connection for the ADSL and fully utilise the functionality of the AEBS.

Any experiences out there?

Draytek

hodgy0_2

Hi andy

when your router works in modem only mode, does it have a LAN address, i.e. an IP address in the private range. usually 192.168.x.x (a 169.254.40.120. address is a special address used when a device is configured to use DHCP but cannot find a DHCP server)

this will be the default gateway of your LAN

otherwise it will get a WAN address (i.e. a public one, usually assigned from your ISP) -- but you will not be able to connect to it -- unless you have a bank of public IP addresses or the modem is connected directly to your PC/MAC


ideally your internet connection device should have an outside interface (WAN) and an inside interface (LAN) - both will have seperate MAC (media access control) interfaces

the inside interface is the one your MAC's/PC's Airports connect to, i.e. they are on the LAN segment (whether hardwired or wireless)

on the LAN you do not want to connect any "routing" devices, because it could send traffic into a black hole, if your Default gatways are not set correctly

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your post - useful in helping me build my networking knowledge.

The Netgear did not give an IP address in modem mode. It is also does not pass through the internet connection to it's ethernet ports - so wireless bridging only - not much use.

For the HomeHub - I don't know. Researching on Google shows little joy getting the AEBS to share a single IP address - i.e. take charge of DHCP and NAT when using a HH.

I did read one user that had NAT being run on one and DHCP on another - but that is beyond my capabilities!

The Draytek acts as a modem and provide a single IP address to a single ethernet connection so would seem to bridge between the WAN and LAN enabling me to utilise the full functionality of the AEBS. So the Draytek is the outside interface and the AEBS is the inside interface.

With the HomeHub as standard - I have the external interface but two internal interfaces that require configuring to share LAN duties.

David