Arron

I am looking to buy a new PC and don't know which operating system to go for!
Most new pc's now come with Microsoft Vista ( Premium ).

I have not used this system so could someone tell my what it is like and the good and bad points over Win XP.

Thanks.

Arron.

Iain Young

Good points for Vista are that it's faster, more secure and prettier than XP.

The only bad point I can see is that there is some software that won't (at the moment) run on it yet.

Arron

Iain, thanks for that! so is it worth getting on a new pc more than XP.

Any ggod or bads points welcome.

Arron.

ChefDude

Arron, at least digest the responses to your questions

The more appropriate question is "I use x,y and z applications - do they work on Vista?"

For that, I'd personally use Google or go to the manufacturers website for their comments/advice/vista patches.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

ten reasons not to get Vista

1. You don't actually need it -- No, think about this. Vista doesn't do anything you can't already do with XP. About the only significant shift requiring Vista is DirextX10, but as no titles support it yet and, according to John Carmack (the godfather of modern gaming) there's no need to yet either.



2. Cost $$ -- It's so blindingly obvious, most people will be blinded to it. You already have XP, and alternatives like Linux are free. If you really want to throw money away, go give it to a local charity.



3. On that note, it's outrageously overpriced -- at least in Australia. As revealed in the current APC, even after taking into account the profit margin Microsoft Australia previously applied to XP (as well as exchange rates, as you would expect), Australians are paying hundreds of dollars more for their copies than in the US. In fact, it's cheaper for Australians to buy Vista direct by mail order from the States. If you think Microsoft Australia is reaming us, vote with your wallet.



4. Upgrading hardware -- XP was demanding at release, but Vista more so. If you have an older machine that struggles with XP at the best of times, Vista is out of your ballpark unless you spend even more money to upgrade. If this is you, see point 1.



5. Driver support -- Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment -- while Nvidia is working furiously to get a stable driver for the 8800 out by the 30th, there's still no SLI support for any of the Nvidia range. And thanks to the removal of hardware accelerated 3D sound in Vista, Creative's popular DirectSound based EAX no longer works at all, muting this feature for just about all gaming titles on the market today. Creative is in the process of coding a layer for its drivers to translate EAX calls to the OpenAL API which is seperate from Vista, but going by past experience with Creative drivers we won't see these any time soon.



6. Applications that don't work -- there's been plenty of coverage about applications that won't work without a vendor update. These include anti-virus, backup and security software such as those from Symantec, Sophos and ilk; CD and DVD burning tools like the suite from Nero need updated versions to work; and even basic disk management and partitioning tools such as Paragon's Hard Disk Manager are awaiting an update for Vista to be compatible. How many more will fail as Vista enters mainstream? Even Firefox has issues with Vista.



7. It's a big fat target -- with a new and untested in the global wild architecture, virus and malware authors are going to work overtime exploiting the holes Microsoft missed. In fact it's already happening. Loath though I am to use the word 'security' and 'Windows' in the same sentence, Windows XP has at least been patched to the hilt and can be used with a plethora of reasonably effective security tools that work now, without waiting for an update down the track.



8. UAC -- Oh yes, the Microsoft solution for an operating system where mutli-user was an afterthought. Sure, you can disable it, but the OS then makes it clear then that the onus is on the user for any damaging programs that got to run with permissions, rather than with Windows in the first place. If you do have it on, it is going to annoy the hell out of you. It pops up far too frequently, and even on a fast PC, the UAC screen takes too long to come up and disappear.



9. DRM -- And to a lesser degree TPM -- were made for the RIAAs and MPAAs of this world, and the even tighter integration of copy protection mechanisms and 'Windows Rights Management' into vista are nothing more than a liability to you, the user. This ComputerWorld piece says is succinctly: 'it's hard to sing the praises of technology designed to make life harder for its users.' As for TPM, this short animated video shows just how far the rabbit hole goes. And to think you pay for the privilege of having the use of media you purchased and own dictated by third parties, even on your own system.



10. The draconian license -- somehow, Microsoft has forgotten that it built its business from products that empowered its customers, not hampered them. Of course, we forget that Microsoft's customers aren't you and I, afterall (see point 9). Aside from the backward thinking that is licensing, and not actually owning, your software new terms with Vista include being able to transfer the license only once; half the limit compared to XP for Home Basic and Premium on how many machines can connect to yours for sharing, printing and accessing the Internet; limits on the number of devices that can use Vista's Media Center features; activation and validation governing your ability to upgrade hardware and use Windows itself; and outlawing the use of Home Basic and Premium with virtualisation software, and Ultimate only if DRM enabled content and applications aren't used. But then again, who reads these anyway?


10 reasons you should get Vista

1. UI built for the era of video and digital photography - It's not actually Microsoft's key selling point, but the thing that everyone will probably find the most useful about Vista is that photos, videos and music are not treated the same as Word documents any more. When you open a folder of photos, they come up as they'd appear in Google Picasa or Apple iPhoto. There's inbuilt basic photo editing. Music folders come up in columns of ID3 tags, a bit like iTunes. Finally, you don't have to rely so much on third party apps to work with your files.

2. Image-based install - PC enthusiasts spend a lot of time installing and reinstalling Windows for their own and other people's PCs. The Vista DVD is actually a pre-installed version of the OS in a compressed form, making it substantially quicker to install. It's also much easier to customise for unprompted installation with the correct defaults, and you can even install your own software automatically at the time Vista is installed - like slipstreaming service packs but on steroids.

3. Up-to-date driver base and better driver handling on installation - Enjoy the just-baked driverbase while it lasts (19,500 drivers large). If you do need to use a special disk driver during installation in the future it won't have to be on floppy disk. Now you can use a USB memory key or CD. Also, Microsoft is now making much greater use of Windows Update for provision of drivers that aren't present in the Windows RTM driver base. Windows Chief Jim Allchin talks about it.

4. Desktop search and search folders built in - Yes, you could already get umpteen desktop search apps including Windows Desktop Search from Microsoft for XP, but you can't underestimate the importance of it being installed on every single Vista PC. Now when your mum rings saying she's lost a document she's been working on all day you can just direct her to the start menu. Also, desktop search folders are handy for finding stuff you haven't necessarily got stored in one folder but that is useful to gather together from time to time (e.g. documents with "tax, invoice or receipt" in them).

5. Sleep mode that actually works. - It's a small thing, but makes a big difference: Vista has finally caught up to operating systems that can sleep near instantly and wake up reliably, in a couple of seconds.

6. Rock-solid laptop encryption - The data on your laptop is worth a hell of a lot to an identity thief. Vista's "Bitlocker" encryption (only in Enterprise and Ultimate versions) does heavy-duty, full-drive encryption, so you can be certain that unless a thief has your password there's simply no way they're going to get in.

7. Better file navigation - Vista now has some time-saving features like favourite folders displayed in the left column of every Explorer window, as well as "breadcrumbed" folder lists allowing you to quickly jump backward and forward through a path. Sure, these should have been put into Windows years ago, but at least they're here now.

8. Inbuilt undelete - Or, depending on how you look at it, inbuilt rolling backup. Every time you make a change to a file or delete it, Windows keeps the previous version. As a result, the "oh !@#$ I just overwrote my entire PhD with Document1" feeling can be quickly assuaged.

9. DirectX10 - OK, this isn't so much a benefit as your hand being forced: DirectX 10 will never be made for XP, and a raft of games have already been announced ‘exclusively' for 10. Admittedly it does take gaming graphics to the next level, but it's very much tied to Vista.

10. Face it, you have no choice - When Microsoft brings out a major renovation to Windows, you can choose to ignore it for a year or two, but then the device drivers start drying up for older versions of Windows, your friends start asking questions about their new PC that you can't answer, and even if you use Linux, you'll inevitably need familiarity with Microsoft's latest interoperability blockers. Face it: your **** belongs to Redmond.

lightning101

Thats like saying don't buy a nice fast/luxurious car, a fiat panda will do the same job. You only live once FFS

Just buy it, its cheaper than XP anyway and you'll use it eventually

ChefDude

exactly.

if you're using windows, then you'll be using vista at some point and the OS cost is usually invisble with new PCs.

If I had a perfectly decent XP based PC, I'd wait until at least Vista SP1 is released.

New PC; go for it - get Vista.

T5OLF

iTrader: (4)

Not sure if you need offfice 2007 for Vista. I have Vista and office 2007 just not got around to installing them. The joys of an msdn account free software for all.

Iain Young

Office 2003 works just fine on vista (32bit and 64bit)

Arron

Ok Guys thanks for all the coments.

It is a new pc I am looking at NOT an upgrade to an XP based system.

Vista here I come ( I think ).

Arron.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Gaming in Vista is aweful, unless you have an uber quick box where you wouldnt necessarily notice a drop in framerate. I've tried most of my fav games which are usually maxxed out n run super smooth in XP, this is definately not the case in Vista :/

I realise this is partly due to the nvidia drivers, but haven't they had long enough to prepare something even half decent?

The Snug Rhino

I put Vista on my current system and very happy with 99% of it - i have to run virtual PC with XP pro on it but only for a daft work app that is 10 years behind the rest of the world. On a new system i wouldnt even think of running an old style OS.

Iain Young

All the games I've tried on mine have run extremely well so far. What graphics card / driver are you using bioforger?

I'm using an 8800GTX and am getting circa 150fps in Company of Heros, and the new C&C demo runs like a dream in 1600x1200x32bit with all the options maxed out...

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Sorry Iain but duh. Of course you're getting good fps, you have the latest 8800. Or was the point of your post just to highlight your awesome rig again?

Like I said if you have a fast system, which you have, then it probably won't be an issue. And as I also said all my games are butter in XP. I have a 7800GS and 100.65 in Vista.

Also tried TDU in vista it was unplayable due to < 20fps. Ran it in XP >40fps, enough said.

Turning off aero didn't seem to help much either.

I'm not using Vista again until these issues are resolved.

Iain Young

I had a 7800gtx in the rig before I put the 8800 in, and even with the slower card (and dodgy drivers) I was still getting better frame rates than I did in XP with the same hardware.

What driver version were you using and are you on 32bit or 64bit Vista?

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I've got the 7950gt but my memory although 2gb is old and bottle necks my computer, so does my P3.4 wouldn't run a calculator now, but all games are fine in Vista

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

7800gtx is still considerably quicker than a 7800gs. I said 100.65 and 32bit.

It's not all about what gfx card n ram you have though is it. Gaming performance is reliant on the combination of the parts in your rig. Not that any of that is relevant as my gaming is fine in XP.

Iain Young

I'm using 64bit Vista now instead of 32bit XP, so perhaps that's why I've seen a speed increase using the same hardware (XP never really liked 64bit dual core processors).

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

I doubt it. There aren't any games written yet to take advantage of 64bits.

Iain Young

I know that, but Vista does some very clever load balancing stuff with dual core processors when running single threaded stuff. Something that XP never did...

scoobyverysoon

iTrader: (1)

I am having a lot of issues with vista mainly running games - dont get me wrong its not a bad OS but it just doesnt like battlefield 2142