VinPetrol

WHat does 1st , 2nd and Third line IT support mean ?

Im in IT but cant find a definition anywhere, I have a rough idea of what it is, but now certain.

anybody know ?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK

1st line is the helpdesk, if they can't resolve it they pass it on to 2nd line which is like a response centre where there are people with a more indepth knowledge. If they can't help it goes to 3rd line support which is probably based in the R&D lab of the product in question.

HTH

Steve
HP openview R&D Support

VinPetrol

I thought it was something like this, although didnt realise 3rd line was the company who makes the product. As a career move, what would a 3rd line support type do after this ?

management ?

Im struggling to see where the best area of IT to make money is.

Ps: thanks for your reply

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Not sure I can answer your question but I work closely with the R&D engineers who develop our software, I do internal support directly to them but we have a CPE team (Current Product Experts) that do stuff like writting patches and supporting helpdesk and so on. we also test our own products etc it is a hell of a lot more interesting being where I am than being on a helpdesk and having to answer the phone all day and talk to idiots who have no feckin idea what they are talking about.

I have to deal with developers and they are bad enough for so called intelligent people.

Management could be an option and get a job as a manager of 1st or 2nd line support, for a few years before moving upto product management or presales support/installation. not really sure where to go next.

GazTheHat

3rd line and management are the upper echelons. But it's not something you can just step into.

Have a lOOk on jobserve.com for an idea of salaries. I'm a developer, but freelance, and that keeps petrol in my STi and the growing list of mods

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I always thought:

1st line support - Help Desk with call logging ability and basic knowledge (Have you tried rebooting it it?) or the "desk bunny" who crawls around under the desks.

2nd line support - Sort out a fair chunk of problems, normally the "jack of all trades, but master of none" - The cocky one who thinks they have the ability to be third line!

3rd line support - Advanced guru specialist types, who are normally locked in a dark room and jabbed with a stick when needed. (Glasses, beard, tank top and sandels help )

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

How do you know what I look like

Snowy_RA

In my area it goes thus: (I work for an ISP)

1st Line: Answers phone, knows a few common problems and how to fix.
2nd Line: Know's alot of solutions, but doesnt have access to the servers, just very basic tools usually through a gui interface (add a mailbox etc).
3rd Line / Team Leader: Know's even more solutions and deemed trustworthy enough to have almost full access to the gui tools (enough to be very dangerous). Mabey also given login accounts / shell access to lesser systems. More technical work less phone work now.

Career Progression *Very* Technical:

Junior Systems Administrator: Finally made the jump into the bigtime, no more helpdesk no more phone. Has proved to be an exceptional 3rdline agent and shows strong technical skills/desire. He probably goes home at night and works on his Linux box. Full access to servers.

Systems Administrator: Proved himself as a Junior by being given complex technical scenarios and designing solutions from the ground up. Fully able to implement these solutions working alone or in a team. Forms the technical core of the company.

Senior Systems Administrator / Team Leader's: Been there, seen it, done it, built it. Has a proven track record of designing, building and maintaining very complex solutions. If it's possible he will know how to do it. His technical knowlege and ability now make him able to jump into many fields, coding, security, project managment, analysis, testing.

Technical Manager: Fully understands all technical aspects and can look at the overall picture. Still has the ability to talk to non-technical people without their eyes glazing over. Should be very good at managing a team and each person individually. He will have a proven record as a systems administrator / senior systems administrator behind him.

Technical Director: Has control over the technical direction of the company and budgets etc. Has a long track record in I.T and strong Managerial skills. Understands where the MD wants the company to go and steers his team of techies in that direction.

However there are other ways to go.. Helpdesk Manager if your less technical. Some move to corperate support going out and meeting clients / pre sales.

Hope this helps.

Snowy (Senior Systems Administrator)

bearded dragon

best way to make money is go contracting, especially if you can easily get into a major city.

I jumped from support to design/implementation about 6 years ago, and have never looked back, neither finacially or work-wise.

The rule of thumb on salary is that the more people that can do the job, the lower the pay.

HTH

Alan C

You can also get 4th line support. Probably not used much nowadays as it's ususally defined as component level repair.

I was a 4th line guy in the RAF and that job entailed taking various IT equipment apart to to repair specific components (VDU's coils, PSU's or removing chips etc..). This was before the days of throwing boards or components away because it's now not cost effective to have people sat there attempting to change a chip... 4th line can also be looked upon as very specific software support such a Firewall rule configuration which I do at the moment.

3rd Line can blend into this area.

As a technical manager (using Snowy's excellent guide) you can still do 3rd / 4th line stuff as I do. But options will probably be limited (as for me in the bank I work for) and it's doubtful you'd get to Technical Director or CTO (Chief Technology Officer) without letting this tech side go and becoming more of the strategist and manager of people like me...

VinPetrol

Thanks for all your replys guys n gals, very helpful.

I do have one question, what is design/implimentation refering to ?

" jumped from support to design/implementation about 6 years ago, and have never looked back, neither finacially or work-wise"

I, at some point would like to make the move from support, but am wondering which would be the most suitable option ?

I am currently contracting and have full access to all servers, all security clearances and help with advice with a lot of descisions, but also I take it in turns with the only other IT guy here to man the help desk ???

We have 75 users.

Jerome

At many companies I've worked at, support levels were thus:

1st Line: People who answered the phone in a call centre. Could sort out most problems to do with (lack of) user training etc.

2nd Line: Systems guys who looked after the servers.

3rd Line: Guys that actually wrote/maintain the software.

KiwiGTI

Most of you are wrong and it goes to show the skills lacking in the IT industry in general.

1st Level = Service Desk - primary function is recording and managing all end users calls.
2nd Level = Network, Server Administration or Central IT function, Telephony services.
3rd Level = Developers, Architects.
4th Level = External Service.

This is all defined quite clearly by ITIL which is the standard that any major company in the UK will be delivering it's IT services to.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I am 3rd line but evasive.

Scumbag

Not sure you're right here...they might want to deliver to an ITIL standard, and have a few people who've passed the exams, but I've seen very few who are actually there (frequently made even harder when they employ outsourcers for the Servicedesk, making the integration with all the other processes even more of a nightmare)

It's a nice framework...makes loads of sense, just difficult to implement the full thing

Hanley

ITIL - the most boring course I've ever been on :yawn:

Markus

I'm 1st, 2nd and 3rd line support Get to deal with the downright silly questions, right up to those annoying, non-reproducable in-house issues, sometimes requiring an on-site visit. I also handle demo's and training for our product range.

If I don't know the answer to a question, a quick call will get me one from the dev team, or if you're ultra lucky, we'll let them talk to the clients direct

2000TLondon

2nd line support for me used to mean sleeping in the conference room, on an air bed, on a night shift, and diverting any calls from 1st line in Europe, to 1st line in Asia. And vice-versa.

Hence, my performance was generally reflected in my salary!

SJ_Skyline

I don't support (not any more), I raise problems and observations for other people to fix

VinPetrol

Marcus

It sounds like you do a similar thing to me, a bit of everything really.

David_Wallis

OI!!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Aren't you growing a beard David???

David_Wallis

Nah, thats laziness when I cant be arsed shaving

dsmith

If developers/architects are getting dragged into 3rd line....they should have done their job better to start with

In my world (large scale networks)....2nd line will still be dealing with "quick fix" solutions that just arent available to 1st line scripted answers/process.

3rd line will be looking at longer term trends, root cause analysis of major faults and those tricky problems that need time and space to analayse/fix.

The designers (me) only get dragged in if 3rd line need help to understand something, can prove its a design fault thats causing the problem, or the only workaround is to change the design. -i.e. beat the latest bit of Cisco cr*p into submission

Monkeybone

From those definitions I do 1 2 and 3 also, yet only get paid the wage of a level 1 :P

I do everything from covering the helpdesk to big projects designing new systems.

I'm kind of stuck in a rut as whilst the job is ok (it's bloody easy) I could do with a bigger challange But down here there's **** all else to do that can pay near it really, and the pay isn't that good.

Alan C

Not having a clear definition of what the various leves of suppport are doesn't mean that my (and others) skills as lacking, what it does show is that there's various answers dependent upon the sector, scope and task you're being asked to do.

ITIL, 17799 (27001), COBIT approach it in different ways to. Any company trying for accreditation cannot possibly work to every exact requirement. A framework is a framework and an auditor has a plenty of leeway to be shown working, provable & measurable practices that get as close as can be for the situation your company is in.

lpski1

Im with Kiwi on the ITIL standard which is being introduced i would say to all big companies that give a toss about their IT dept and developement.

So that puts me at 3rd Level (ish) and im about to step into the contracting market, i'd like to know peoples opinions on the going contracting rate for London (City side not West End) and what you would see it as/want to be earning.



£35-£50 p/hr ???

lpski1

I also agree with that too

KiwiGTI

True 3rd level, Architects or high level developers are on double those hourly rates.

lpski1

I can do Architect work, i just dont currently, and probably wont be quite the role im looking for.

It gives me something to go on though, of course i'll run it by the contractors i currently work with.