ScoobyJawa

After some pearls of wisdom if I could please!

I've been sent details of a 12 month contract doing Cisco IP Call Centre stuff, which is the area I currently work in. They are offering £468 per day.

I've never done contracting before so haven't got a clue what it will entail and what I'd need to set up/do etc.

Anyone who's done it give me a quick run through of what I'd need to look at?

Cheers
Neil

TopBanana

PCG guide to freelancing: http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?...513&Itemid=150

You have a choice of setting up your own company or going through an umbrella company. The latter is easier, but you might take home less cash.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

£121k+ per year based on a 5 day week. I am definately in the wrong job!

ChefDude

Get your accountant to check over the contract to see if you're liable for IR35, ie; being taxed as an employee.

the differences are:
Outside IR35 (not seen as an employee)
with a partner and limited company:
both of you will be employees of your limited company and both of you 50% shareholders
you take a 12K salary
your partner takes a 5K salary as company secretary
everything else you take as dividends

you'll then pay about 2K in employees tax and next to nothing in employers NI
and then only 20% on dividends. and 10% of your profits (gross-salaries-expenses=profit)

This way you'll pay just over 30% in tax

Inside IR35 (ie; deemed an employee) you'll pay about 50% in tax. don't let anyone tell you differently. think 50% and you won't be far wrong.

Again outside IR35, but as a 100% shareholder, you'll save on your employers NI.

Get a good accountant on recommendation, not one of those poncey contractor-only ones either. they have a tax profile for contractors and if you want to deviate in any way, they won't help.

ChefDude

hehe, everyone calculates that way Jay, but remember there's only 253 working days in the year, so that's already down to 118K. then you'll take at least 2 weeks holiday, but it's best to count 4, so that's now 109K. then take away the accountant which is a 1000 for a good one, so 108K.

and then divide it in 2, for 54K in your pocket (assuming inside IR35).

Still, it pays the rent lol

when i was last contracting, I was paying 7K a month in tax, but I was also getting 7K in my pocket per month. at those rates it's worth it to still get that amount in your pocket

TopBanana

50% takehome - Jesus!

ChefDude

sometimes the client doesn't play ball and you're stuck in ir35

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

only 54k in the pocket, could live on that, its still twice what I earn before tax!. My father in law gets about that before tax and he is totally minted. Wish I hadnt messed up at school as I actually wanted to be a comp programmer//systems analyst

TopBanana

Yr father in law is probably sensible with his money too. Very easy to blow all your cash!

You don't need really need qualifications to be a programmer, but you do need to be sharp, up to speed with the technology and have the right attitude. If you wanted to do it, you probably could.

crazyman1979

Get yourself through a decent umbrella company and they will get you outside of IR35 even if your in it, they even insure you against getting caught.

I currently take home 82% of my gross this way, with an additional 20% to pay as corporation tax on anything in the 40% tax bracket.

ChefDude

so you get to spend 62% then?

KiwiGTI

As long as you can lie and bluff you way in an interview, as well as falsify your CV you could do what 90% of what the british IT industry does anyway.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I know I can do it that isnt a problem, when I was 16 back in the early 90's I was with an IT agency and they were trying to get me placements for a junior programmer but no company would touch a 16 yr old at the time. I did do some basic qualifications (city & guilds which are more or less worthless) in Pascal, C, Basic and a bit of Fortran as well.

Eventually I settled on a call centre job and they had their own software writers internally writing for AS400 etc, they had some trainee jobs going and I went twice for the positions but didnt get them. Had to pass an advanced test on both occasions which I did easily but I failed at the interview stage. The reason I got was because I already knew and had some programming ability then I would have a different mindset to how they work commenting code, logic etc. They went for individuals who could barely use a computer (these people went for it as the job was a lot more money than what they were on) so they could be trained up how the company wanted them to work.

After that I sort of gave up chasing it as I thought it was pointless. Not done any programming now for probably 7 years. (bought Visual C but never really used it)

rich101

Well get your ar$e in gear and get on with it !

Research the job market right now . . . . speak with the agents ask them what's hot and paying well. But I would'nt share your circumstances with them just some vague comment about being a cobol programmer looking to cross train, that should do the trick.

Seriously make the time 1 - 2 hours a days is nothing and after 6 to 9 months as long as you have researched your subject well you will be employable.

You might think that it is too late but simply put you are wrong. Positive attitude mate !

R

ScoobyJawa

Thanks for the tips people - really useful

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Would I need to learn some cobol though (forgot what it stands for is it common objective business orientated language?) Do you reckon going on some courses would help like networking (cisco, novell etc?), from what I have heard the microsoft certified courses are not worth much is that true do you know?

Sorry for hijacking the thread ScoobyJawa but that is the kind of money I want to be on.

TopBanana

If you want to be a developer, Novell Cisco etc are no good to you. The Microsoft Certified Developer courses are actually a pretty good way to help learn MS stuff (c# vb.net), as long is you do it the right way and dont cheat!

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

No its not just developing now to be honest, I would want to know and learn about networking as well as that could be used as a sideline. Besides knowledge is power.

ChefDude

you can't have your cake and eat it.

there are a million vb devs out there.

pick something, learn it, get a niche like finance and be the best at it.

if you want to successfully contract you have to be better than the vast majority and you have to be positive to sell yourself.

remember, it's about a company wanting a short term service that their own employees can't offer. you need to have confidence and the skills to back it up.

getting the real money (above 400 a day) in IT is not easy. people who speak up might be on an easy contract, but I'll bet their cv isn't half a page.

stevencotton

I don't earn 400 a day and I know my ****

ChefDude

it was a bit of a generic number, sorry.

I'm sure you agree with me in principle tho?

GaryK

No, *specialise* dont generalise go down the development route or the networking route not both. Too many people in IT try and cover all areas and you end up being a jack of all trades. Keep your knowledge base narrow but strong, that has what has served me well.

As chef says being in a £400+ contract isnt difficult but getting the necessary skills and experience takes along time, Ive earnt well from contracting for the last 12 or so years but then Ive been in IT since 1984.

Gary

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Gary, what sort of qualifications would you recommend if any that I look to do?
My problem at present is that I have a mortgage so I cannot afford to take a job less than 25k, so I imagine it would be hard getting in somewhere for that amount of money without qualifications.

TopBanana

As above, if you want to learn MS develpment, and there are plenty of jobs out there, the MS certified course is good, but you have to first decide what you want to do.

You'll have to do a permie job for a year or two before you're good enough to go contracting.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

yeah I know it will take a while before I am able to go contracting, its just getting a foothold to have that option. I have just been looking at Open University degrees (Various I.T. ones) but it would take years before I would have a qualification (all the smaller courses that you have to take to be able to do the main one) Cost is prohibitive as well!

What I would do for a small lottery win (although big would be better)!

Will have a look into the MS certified courses, cheers
James

dsmith

Anyone who thinks they can dabble in networks ..... has no appreciation of what a real network looks like.

I'm not talking about a couple of CCNA books and I installed a router and a couple of switchs for my mates, mum's freinds office.

When we're looking for contractors the generalists who cant doing any one thing well stick out a mile. There's a place for them I admit, but you wont get a decent contract doing 1st/2nd line general IT support.

GaryK

Well to be honest my experience is that qualifications count for very little, experience counts for *everything*. So how do you get started?

Hmmm wanting 25k as minimum is going to be tricky tbh, you only real in is doing say 1st line support and progressing from there but you wont get that sort of money straight off. Could look for junior/trainee roles if they exist but again 25k is maybe unrealistic.

Good luck

Gary

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

yes thats what I thought 25 k for a 31yr old junior is a lot, thats why I am thinking of the qualification route. I agree with you though that experience imo is what counts and not qualifications.

KiwiGTI

Also look at the Sun/Java qualifications. If you can do the Enterprise Architect qualification you should be capable of doing virtually any Java programming role.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

was looking at some java books earlier on to be honest will probably order some next week. I have ordered some on Dreamweaver so I can learn web design, have done very basic self taught html (with help from the net), and java was the next implication for that as well. Thinking about advertising as doing web design to get some extra pennies which can help pay for other courses.