Broadband gone crazy.. time for cisco's at home!
08 August 2005, 02:08 PM
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Broadband gone crazy.. time for cisco's at home!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4749987.stm
Maybe it's time to get a cisco router at home!!
David
Maybe it's time to get a cisco router at home!!
David
08 August 2005, 02:15 PM
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Ace, I read on adsl guide that Japan's typical connection is 50 Meg download and 3Meg upload. I hope ADSL users will be getting 8 meg very soon. I know ADSL 2 is being tested in london soon as well
08 August 2005, 03:53 PM
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I was just getting at the point that BT are only now just nationally upgrading all exchanges to 2mb. Why don't they put in 8mb cards now and be done with. If they spend all this time installing 2mb cards now they arn't going to be doing it again for some time in my opinion so an upgrade to 8mb will only be for those lucky few in the cities where BT decide they want to put in 8mb cards. If ISP's are going to put in their own kit then fair enough but surely that cost will just be passed onto the customer which will make it unattractive.
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08 August 2005, 04:12 PM
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You've answered your own question b2zero - it's a cost exercise which will be passed onto the customer........... <cynical mode fused into ON mode!!!!> 
Dan
Dan
08 August 2005, 05:10 PM
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So isn't that a little unfair then if BT decide to do some exchanges like the ones currently enabled and not others and those others if you want 8mb you have to pay for the card yourself? Hows that work if only one person decides they want it initially, the card gets installed on that exchange and then other customers in that area decide to go to 8mb? What do they get charged? Or will it require a certain number of customers to cover the cost of the card before an exchange will get upgraded to 8mb?
I thought the whole idea was supposed to be making adsl affordable to the masses and 8mb should be the minimum standard when you look at what other countries run yet good old Britain want to run with just 2mb as the minimum standard
I can't see how 8mb lines will take off if you have to leave BT as your phone supplier and move to the adsl provider's own network?
Currently it works so well as you don't have to change anything, your phone isn't affected, you can order from who you want without worrying who is going to rip you off for phone call charges. People want an easy life ie not having to mess about with taking their phone off of a BT contract.
An example of what I mean is recently I enquired as to getting a Bulldog 8mb adsl business line for my desk. However it meant we couldn't use our existing BT lines. Well it wasn't going to be practical for the business to move 1 phone line off of BT to Bulldog just for an adsl line due to contracts and building lease clauses etc. So we had to stick with a 2mb connection over a BT line.
I thought the whole idea was supposed to be making adsl affordable to the masses and 8mb should be the minimum standard when you look at what other countries run yet good old Britain want to run with just 2mb as the minimum standard
I can't see how 8mb lines will take off if you have to leave BT as your phone supplier and move to the adsl provider's own network?
Currently it works so well as you don't have to change anything, your phone isn't affected, you can order from who you want without worrying who is going to rip you off for phone call charges. People want an easy life ie not having to mess about with taking their phone off of a BT contract.
An example of what I mean is recently I enquired as to getting a Bulldog 8mb adsl business line for my desk. However it meant we couldn't use our existing BT lines. Well it wasn't going to be practical for the business to move 1 phone line off of BT to Bulldog just for an adsl line due to contracts and building lease clauses etc. So we had to stick with a 2mb connection over a BT line.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 08 August 2005 at 05:17 PM.
08 August 2005, 10:47 PM
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I have the bulldog 8Mbps service. They are a bit cut price on the whole support arrangements, but if you know what you are doing then prepare for constant 850KBps download speed. I download laps of track days which are around 100MB in just over two minutes 
Also have registered interest with the first adsl2 service which starts soon (hopefully) http://www.bethere.co.uk/ which should be fun
Also have registered interest with the first adsl2 service which starts soon (hopefully) http://www.bethere.co.uk/ which should be fun
09 August 2005, 09:06 AM
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LOL - You want BT to do the hard work and install the kit ....but let other ISPs take the profit !?
Its not just the kit in exchanges - suitably sized backhaul links are needed to service those 8Mb+ DSL line, and they're not provided over 4Km of crap old copper like the DSL, that takea real fibre over long distances and thats the expensive part. It will come but only as people are willing to pay for it. We're going to need some more innovative services than "just internet" before that happens on a widespread scale.
Unfortunately the government is quite content to leave this to market forces. They've squandered everty oppurtunity to invest in national infrastructure.
Its not just the kit in exchanges - suitably sized backhaul links are needed to service those 8Mb+ DSL line, and they're not provided over 4Km of crap old copper like the DSL, that takea real fibre over long distances and thats the expensive part. It will come but only as people are willing to pay for it. We're going to need some more innovative services than "just internet" before that happens on a widespread scale.
Unfortunately the government is quite content to leave this to market forces. They've squandered everty oppurtunity to invest in national infrastructure.
09 August 2005, 10:13 AM
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LOL - You want BT to do the hard work and install the kit
So you are saying the current infrastructure can deal with 2mb but not 8mb? Yet the Japanese and several European countries are already running far faster networks than 8mb yet Britain can only cope with 2mb on its current infrastructure?
09 August 2005, 11:41 AM
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Sweded has a massive fibre running it's countries lengh this is what gives them their high speeds. New blocks of flats in Japan/Korea e.t.c are built with 100mbps connections into the buildings, sick.
09 August 2005, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by King RA
Sweded has a massive fibre running it's countries lengh this is what gives them their high speeds. New blocks of flats in Japan/Korea e.t.c are built with 100mbps connections into the buildings, sick.
09 August 2005, 12:12 PM
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i also believe the ground rates for optical fibre is much higher than copper wire. So its not just the initial cost of the cable.
EDIT: Ive just found the article, its not that optical fibre has higher rates, its that BT has reduced rates due to a negotiated rate with the government where other telecoms providers dont have this and pay a higher rate.
Mark
EDIT: Ive just found the article, its not that optical fibre has higher rates, its that BT has reduced rates due to a negotiated rate with the government where other telecoms providers dont have this and pay a higher rate.
Mark
Last edited by NWMark; 09 August 2005 at 12:15 PM.
09 August 2005, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by King RA
Sweded has a massive fibre running it's countries lengh this is what gives them their high speeds.
It's not just "having the fibre" because the theoretical bandwidth on a bit of fibre (particularly with DWDM) is virtually limitless. It's having the high speed line drivers on each end, which cost a fortune. At the time I was doing this stuff, the STM-16 POS cards for a Cisco GSR were in excess of £80k each. And Lucent used to take the p1ss out of them for using cheap lasers
IIRC the Lucent Wavestar DWDM boxes (well, cabinets really) were a lot more expensive. Even so, a 12-port GSR populated with £80k linecards in each slot was a pretty dear piece of kit.
Last edited by carl; 09 August 2005 at 08:02 PM.
09 August 2005, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by carl
When I was involved in rollout of the BT Colossus core IP network (some years ago now) it was the fastest in Europe. I believe that with subsequent upgrades that is still true. And I believe it is still vastly under-utilized. Of course, you need to get fat backhaul links from the exchanges to the nearest core node...
It's not just "having the fibre" because the theoretical bandwidth on a bit of fibre (particularly with DWDM) is virtually limitless. It's having the high speed line drivers on each end, which cost a fortune. At the time I was doing this stuff, the STM-16 POS cards for a Cisco GSR were in excess of £80k each. And Lucent used to take the p1ss out of them for using cheap lasers IIRC the Lucent Wavestar DWDM boxes (well, cabinets really) were a lot more expensive. Even so, a 12-port GSR populated with £80k linecards in each slot was a pretty dear piece of kit.
It's not just "having the fibre" because the theoretical bandwidth on a bit of fibre (particularly with DWDM) is virtually limitless. It's having the high speed line drivers on each end, which cost a fortune. At the time I was doing this stuff, the STM-16 POS cards for a Cisco GSR were in excess of £80k each. And Lucent used to take the p1ss out of them for using cheap lasers
IIRC the Lucent Wavestar DWDM boxes (well, cabinets really) were a lot more expensive. Even so, a 12-port GSR populated with £80k linecards in each slot was a pretty dear piece of kit.Like you say the expensive bit is the cards for the ADMs etc carrying those fibres from point to point and the routers or whatever at each end providing the IP access.
When I first started work 6 years ago a customer who had an E3 internet line was impressive. Nowadays customers are running STM1/4 and GigE connections all over the place.
Simon.
10 August 2005, 12:52 AM
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When I was involved in rollout of the BT Colossus core IP network (some years ago now) it was the fastest in Europe. I believe that with subsequent upgrades that is still true. And I believe it is still vastly under-utilize
)Then the MPLS was built as another high bandwidth core next to both the ATM + Colossus.
Only with 21CN will BT converge on a single core IP platform.
10 August 2005, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec
I belive BT wanted to put fibre in some years ago but Offcom / HMG told them not to.
FT have been rolling out ADSL2 in France for sometime. They have about 60% coverage. Price for a 15Mb line is about 30 Euros a month. We will see prices similar to that in this country, but it will take time.
Chris
10 August 2005, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris L
Absolutely true - back in the early 90s - BT offered to cable up the entire country - fibre optic to the doorstep basically - to every house in the country in return for rights to market multi media services to home users. BT were prepared to swallow the entire cost - est at 15 billion at the time. Someone at BT had seen the future, unfortunately, someone in the government had not and they refused. We had the chance to have the most up-to-date infrastructure in the world with unlimited capacity
10 August 2005, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmith
Then the MPLS was built as another high bandwidth core next to both the ATM + Colossus
10 August 2005, 05:30 PM
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TopBanana - tell me about it. It depresses me eveytime I tell someone about it. All this BS about 'e government' etc etc - if they actually had a few people who understood the technology - not just today, but where it is going, then they would have let BT do it
ATM ain't that dead - it is still widely used - mostly by carriers and backbone networks, but it is still around. Ah, MPLS - don't get me started on this one. Our techy guys have been working on the security of MPLS for the last few months - can't say too much, because there is a white paper coming out soon. Let's just say, it isn't as secure as Cisco and others would like you to believe....
It is also true that BT did start a limited fibre roll out, but then they also started using cheaper aluminium wiring in a lot of Midlands exchanges which pretty much buggered the chances of those people have ADSL too!
ATM ain't that dead - it is still widely used - mostly by carriers and backbone networks, but it is still around. Ah, MPLS - don't get me started on this one. Our techy guys have been working on the security of MPLS for the last few months - can't say too much, because there is a white paper coming out soon. Let's just say, it isn't as secure as Cisco and others would like you to believe....
It is also true that BT did start a limited fibre roll out, but then they also started using cheaper aluminium wiring in a lot of Midlands exchanges which pretty much buggered the chances of those people have ADSL too!
11 August 2005, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by carl
BT did fibre up to some developments (in Milton Keynes, IIRC). The irony is that those houses now can't get ADSL...
11 August 2005, 10:48 AM
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They should've funded the upgrade from lottery money. It's all well saying BT would have swallowed the cost 20yrs ago, but they wouldn't then readily hand it back too everyone now. I wouldn't expect any commercial company to do that.
The problem in the past was BT's monopoly. It's only in the past 10yrs with cable that there's been enough competition to force them to cut telephone bills, installation fees, rental costs, etc.. Now with LLU, ISP's have forced BT to cut prices on ADSL and offer more bandwidth to compete with cable.
If BT still ran the show, I very much doubt we'd have all the bandwidth we have today. And even then we still fall behind a lot of countries in Europe and the ROTW.
Britain should be setting the example, not following it. Europe regulations will be taking away the 'Great' part of Britain before we know it
The problem in the past was BT's monopoly. It's only in the past 10yrs with cable that there's been enough competition to force them to cut telephone bills, installation fees, rental costs, etc.. Now with LLU, ISP's have forced BT to cut prices on ADSL and offer more bandwidth to compete with cable.
If BT still ran the show, I very much doubt we'd have all the bandwidth we have today. And even then we still fall behind a lot of countries in Europe and the ROTW.
Britain should be setting the example, not following it. Europe regulations will be taking away the 'Great' part of Britain before we know it