DazV

I'm looking to write a stand-alone application for windows users, that could access various types of databases (MySQL, SQL Server, etc)

I was wondering if there are any languages that are more suitable than others for this task ?

MS VB ? MS C++ ? Anything else I should look at that lend themselves well to database manipulation?

Ideally I'd be using ODBC, but I'm open to other options.

Jerome

I would recommend MS VB for reasons of speed of development if nothing else. If you need to learn the language as well, then all the more reason to use VB.

ODBC is also pretty straight forward and is easy to use through VB.

GaryK

Any integrated development environment (IDE) such as VB or Delphi or even a Java IDE such as JBuilder will all have tools that speed development when connecting to a database. Its just whatever you feel comfortable with really and more about how productive the environment is rather than the underlying language. I use Delphi which is a *very* good RAD tool and you could write a simple DB app without a single line of code, you maybe able to do that with VB I dont know. Im sure others will post their fave tool! (oo er missus)

Fosters

any reason you can't go browser based? no installation issues, centralised maintenance/support. loads of language options and you can still go odbc.

I code in Vb these days and avoid any controls that will then require an installation. making exes is a pain as it is. if you have to, stick it all in an isapi.dll (.Net easiest for this)

DazV

Fosters,
I'm currently writing browser based apps for a few customers - its my preference, but as I currently use coldfusion as the scripting language there's a cost implication. Perhaps I should switch to ASP or PHP (both free I believe). Do you find that using a browser as the basis for the app is anyway limiting in terms of the controls you can use? Ran across any cases where you couldn't implement what you needed ?

GaryK,
VB bores me really - I'd like to try something new - so I'll get some trial versions of JBuilder or Delphi as you recommend and see how it goes. Delphi is something I here good things about.

Incidentally I'm doing a retro-remake of an 80's arcade game in my spare time (weekends) so I seem to have the programming bug at the moment!

GaryK

Daz,

I've done browser based stuff using ISAPI as fosters mentions, in the old day it was a pain because you are forever stopping and starting the web server each time you needed to make a change (I believe this isnt the case with .net now though) and you are right in terms of widget sets you are limited. Also debgging is a pain too. Going the ASP or PHP route I do not think you will find a true rapid environment to work in but I guess it is what you are used to really. VB is probably the most overrated piece of software in my (extensive) experience, thats a big statement but I kid you not I could write a small book on its shortcomings and thats not a swipe at those that use VB at all because there are plenty of capable apps written by good devs who use VB.

If you want to go the gaming route and you do choose Delphi then do a search for Delphi and Wolfenstein, yep someone has ported all the C code to Delphi (C ports are quite straightforward). If you need any further info then please PM me

cheers

Gary

Fosters

Daz, coding ASP session screens isn't as rapid an experience as some might imagine, especially where you're accessing a dB backend and trying to implement a level of robustness. the end result is worth it though. controls wise, if you can't find third party controls, then you may have to write some yourself. there's no better technique than just generating standard DHTML pages - simple, issue free, maintainable by all in sundry.

games: blitz basic goto www.blitzcoder.com for examples
I was a doubting thomas, but a chap here has rewritten pacman. it's indistinguishable from the real thing! very rapid games development.

DazV

Thanks guys - some really useful info.

GaryK,
I share your dislike of VB, hence my quest for a few opionions on what else is out there. Downloading DELPHI now. Will try JBUILDER too. To be honest, I love the browser approach, like Fosters says - doddle to deploy and maintain. So long as the application doesn't need advanced controls I'm fine.

Fosters,
I'm fairly profficient with ASP, having used it a couple of years ago, however I agree with your criticisms of it Fosters. Coldfusion is a much more enjoyable experience. Never really done much with PHP, but because its free it may be worth looking into.

Game Development
The game, Atari SuperSprint, is about 60% comlete, originally in C++ / DirectX, but then I too found out about the joys of Blitz and had a prototype running in days! Now any spare Saturdays I get (when I'm not at the footy) are dedicated to it. Its a bit like unfinished business as I originally wrote it in Assembler back in the late 80's, but had to leave it and get a proper job!

GaryK

Daz,

Nice one yes Ive looked at blitz many times but never have the time or inclination to spend my evenings pouring over code if I have been doing it in my day job.

If you are going to DB dev work and deployment is an issue I have done apps before using a framework for delphi called ASTA, it basically allows you to deploy a single exe and uses IP as the transport mechanism, features security and encryption, automatic web updates with full DB functionality and can work disconnected too. Their AstaIO product is even x-platform too, Ive got Win32 and Linux clients talking to an ASTA server connected to SQLServer. There is another one called RemObjects too and of course now with .net there is .net remoting too (supported by D8). Personally I prefer the 'webplication' route because I can deliver a rich GUI that is easy to deploy and maintain, the best of both worlds!

JBuilder is ok but I get sick of all these companies writing the IDE in Java because it is sooooo slow! I would rather have a quick slick IDE written for the platform it runs on and then deploy to x-platform.

Iain Young

I'm using Intellij Idea for my Java development at the moment. Miles quicker than JBuilder, and I'd say it's even quicker than MS VC6 (which I'm using for win32 stuff). Just because it's written in Java, doesn't necessarily mean it's got to be slow....

Iain

GaryK

Sorry but I disagree, Ive spent the last few years listening to people tell me how all the time Java performance is improving, sorry but every UI I see is slow when compared to a native compiled app and no amount of JIT is going to help, AWT and Swing have too many layers of abstraction between the control and code that actually does the rendering. Which is why IBM have come up with the SWT to improve performance.

Of course the biggest argument I constantly face is that Java is great for 'black-box' apps and I am always prepared to do the Pepsi challenge, get a java dev to create a simple class that instantiates and destroys say 500,000 or even a million instances of a simple object which is stored in either an unordered collection or simple list and I'll do the same in delphi and then benchmark performance, I know what I would back everytime!

Iain Young

Delphi would win of course because you are not comparing like with like. A fairer test would be to compare it with .NET managed code. Must give it a try sometime.....

But as for the IDE, how often do you need to create 500,000 objects when writing / editing a bit of code?

I know that the Java IDE I'm currently using is definitely more responsive and generally works quicker than either VC6 or .NET on my machine. However I will say that Intellij is not as full of bloatware as Jbuilder etc, (for example no wizards for creating web apps / swing guis etc which you never use), so that may go some way to explain the speed....

GaryK

Not very often agreed

I just like to make a point thats all when people tell me how well Java performs and I say nope sorry it sucks!

DazV

Heh, I used the same "500,000" items example when recently arguiing a case against pre-calculated look up tables for SIN & COS (needed to calc the dx and dy for sprites in Blitz). These Days its trivial for a modern CPU to calculate this stuff on the fly.

GaryK

Daz,

So when are we gonna see a blitz game from you then?

Gary

DazV

I have a semi-playable level :-)

Need to add:

- sound
- car 2 car collision
- trivial stuff to flesh it out

Its been really hard keeping the exact original graphics in (ripped from original arcade rom) as I have some 3D rendered Scoob WRC cars!

DazV

My desktop!
(Warning 300kb)

Please note, not my webspace!

My little motor:

GaryK

nice one daz, looking good super sprint is a way cool game, in fact as a boy I remember playing the prequel sprint 2 in arcades, the black and white one where you had to spin the steering wheel through about 10 turns to go round bends, awesome!

tommy1980

Have you tried writing in C#?

I have been writing in VB, ASP and a little bit of JAVA for approx 2-3 years and have been writing in C# for about 9 months and have found it to be faster than any anything else that I have used and easier to create apps. This is probably becasue it being part Java, part C++ and bits of VB all in one.

DazV

I'll check it out tommy - thanks.

Fosters

it's nice having 2 monitors

couldn't live without 2 now.

pretty messy as desktops go too!!