dsmith

Just for info

and

*********************
10.1 You must take all reasonable precautions to ensure that no one (including you) uses the service:

...
b) to send, knowingly receive, upload, download or use any material which is offensive, abusive, indecent, defamatory, obscene or menacing, or in breach of copyright, confidence, privacy or any other rights;
c) to cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety;
...

10.3 If you are using Anytime or SurfTime and we think that your computer is automatically redialling your internet connection, we can suspend or terminate your access to the service as explained in paragraphs 14 and 15.

10.4 Also, if you are using Anytime or SurfTime, these services are not intended to be "always on" services. Accordingly, we may limit any single online session to two hours. Between the peak hours of 19:00 and 22:00, we may
*****************

Unattended downloads Overnight (e.g. via GetRight) will break 10.3 because of 10.4

Again not syaing I agree - just pointing out that it is explained if people actually read what they're signing up to. Also I'me pretty sure MarkO could be disconnected for 10.1c

Deano

[Edited by dsmith - 10/2/2002 11:49:59 AM]

[Edited by dsmith - 10/2/2002 11:51:19 AM]

ScoobyDoo555

The way I read this is that BT Openworld are effectively discriminating against users who don't have Broadband. My reasoning behind this thought is that BT aren't metering Broadband, just Dialup.

The cynic in me sez "They trying to force everybody onto Broadband" [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Now, personally, I want Broadband, but due to my living in the countryside, I can't have it!!![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

However, I'm having serious reservations about staying with a company that is trying, is essence to extort money out of me......

Might be time to look around........

Dan (anybody know if ISDN is in North Herefordshire?)

edited coz I'm a donut!!!

[Edited by ScoobyDoo555 - 10/3/2002 6:52:18 PM]

nkh

Having just read http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2289961.stm I am angry to discover BT openworld are limiting surftime customers to 120 hours a month and Anytime customers to 150 hours.

I have called BT and their customer service people only knew there were new restrictions coming in, not the exact details. As a customer I expect details of such changes to be sent to me. Given the speed with which e-mail can be sent out I am amazed my inbox does not have the specific waiting for me to digest. Do BT want to loose all their customers?

News articles expressing suprise that high usage customers have not already converted to ADSL are obviously looking at ADSL through rose coloured glasses. I would love ADSL, I will even pay through the nose for it, if only they would upgrade my exchange. Given where I live and the threshold BT have set ADSL will never happen here.

Oops, I have ranted. Sorry.

Nic.

mark_h

I don't think I've ever received news from BTO except their notices of payment.

Fortunately I'm getting rid of BTO this week anyway

nkh

In the time I have been with Openworld I have recieved 4 e-mails. (you can tell I use that e-mail account a lot can't you )

The first welcomed me, the second informed me of a price rise, the third gave details of new term and conditions (when they capped to 12 hours in a day) and the final one seemed to suggest I was connecting on the wrong phone number.

Hence I expected mail from them.

Do Freeserve do single channel ISDN? Are they capping usage yet?

suba

maybe time to check out isp review for another ISP

boomer

When BT increased the price of SurfTime (six to seven quid a month), they hid the fact in the small-print of some "update" promo-zine included in the quarterly bill (i.e. AFTER the change had taken place!!!).

Fingers crossed (for me) that the above restrictions are only for OpenWink customers - else BT will lose yet another subscriber (or thousand)!

mb

MarkO

I use BT Anytime from 7am until 5pm every working day, but haven't had a letter of restriction. So I guess they don't care about me.

If they do try to restrict me, I'll move to freeserve.

what would scooby do

don't these restrictions only apply to dial-up connections - not ADSL.

Nobody else on the planet has a limit on broadband "always on" AFAIK??

MarkO

Looks like they're going to be limiting ASDL too - to 1Gb/day. Tossers.

dsmith

"BT openworld are limiting surftime customers to 120 hours a month and Anytime customers to 150 hours."

Yes they're both Dial products

I dont particularly agree with the restrictions but who averages 5 hours/day on dial-up (apart from MarkO )?

And as for 1Gb/Day on ADSL - unless you're sharing Films on peer-to-peer you're unlikely to hit that are you - certainly not with a bit of web-surfing ? and as most people are well aware thats breaking a large number of copywright laws so its not exactly a defendable activity. Even on-line gaming with something bandwidth hungry like BF9142 1GB would give you 24 hours not stop play.

These are all consumer products aimed at consumer markets. If people need something less limited for business purposes then they should buy business products. The economies of the back-end bandwidth mean the products have to be designed with a particular level of contention. With margins as small as they are and debt levels as high as they are its no great surprise the margins have to be defended with enforcement of theses contention levels.

Deano

Oakers

Just had my BTAnytime account ceased due to excessive use. What a pain in the A£se. They apparantly sent me emails to the btinternet email address, of which I never look at, and subsequently turned it off. Bugger. I tried to blame it on Microsoft, but they wouldn't have it.

I am now off to find a better, cheaper and faster ISP.

MarkO

But they've not sent me a complaining mail, so IDGAS. Perhaps 'cos most of their customers use the dial-up off-peak, that's who they're clamping down on. I imagine most of their capacity is spare whilst people are out at work.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, 1Gb isn't even 2 full-motion full-length videos per day. Pffff.

lpitt

BT have had limits on dialup for some time now. Basically the problem was that when they introduced 'anytime' (and this will eventually go for all ISP's - they just don't want to be first) no-one was expected to remain connected all the time.

What has happened is that users (particularly with ISDN) leave the PC on 24x7 and since the connectivity is contention based at the exchange (limited number of dial-up points) this means that during busy periods some people can't get through at all.

It makes sense really. 150 hours is almost 7 days of constant dial-up. If you're online that much in a month then either you need to get some friends ( ) or have a look at ADSL for faster access anyway.

BTW: I have just contacted BT about the restrictions on ADSL. As far as I'm aware there has always been a limit of around 5GB per week before they get concerned on the Home500 package but let's see what they officially say.

Laurence

MarkO

Not really. I use dial-up from work so I can email and use instant messaging - which I can't through the corporate network. Therefore, I stay dialled up for most of each working day.

If I used my connection in the evening, I might well decide to queue up movies, games, Mp3s, etc., to download, and leave them running overnight. So it wouldn't be hard to use far more than 150hours/month without any 'unreasonable' use.

And the ADSL argument is fine, except that I (obviously) can't get ADSL installed at work, and it's not available in my home area (and isn't likely to be)....

dsmith

Marko - Surely you have to agree that having a dial session up every working day -at work and again in the evening is not what the product is aimed at (and therfore costed at). However much people feel aggrieved by it, "no unattended use" e.g. downloading overnight has always been outside the Ts & Cs. Maybe I'm in a massive minority but just because abuse of copyright is widescale doesnt make it legimate.

If in your business capacity you require an un-limited dial account to enable you to work at your client site then you need a business service. After all I'me sure it goes down as a "business expense"

I was under the impression all "anytime" services required you to register the callerID of the line you wish to use (freeserve certainly does) - do you use the same account from work and home lines at the moment ?

Deano

lpitt

Ref ADSL.

Verbally there's a 7GB limit per week but I found this on the register:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/27364.html

We'll have to see what BT are willing to put in writing for me.

Laurence

MarkO

Erm, the product is called "BT Anytime", and is touted as "24/7 unmetered dial-up access". If they meter your usage, and restrict you to 5 hours' access per day, it strikes me that it is they who are being unreasonable.Is it? Not that I've seen. I could be wrong though.What's copyright abuse got to do with this argument? The content I'm downloading is irrelevant.It's not a business requirement, it's a personal one. I don't need it, I want it. If it was business-related, I'd do it through my corporate connection (obviously, since it's 240kb/sec ). I don't put the BT Anytime costs through the business (although I'd be perfectly justifiable in doing so).My BT Anytime account is registered to my office phone number. It used to be the case that CLID was required, but I found out recently that it works anywhere regardless of the CLID, because the external line I dial up from changed numbers but the dial-up continued to work.

I don't dial up from home (by the time I get home in the evening I've had enough of staring at a VDU) - so whilst it's possible to use the account from both locations, I don't actually do that. The number of times I've dialled up from home in the last 12 months probably numbers less than 5.

MarkO

Couple of points here. Firstly, if BT really cared or wanted to stop anyone who was downloading obscene or offensive material, or material which breached copyright, they'd have to kick off 95% of their customers. They know people do it, they just put that clause in so they can't be sued by the copyright holders.

Secondly, BT Anytime connections are automatically terminated at the end of 2 hours. This happens to me, and is - frankly - a PITA. However, I just auto-redial, and reconnect 10-15 seconds later. This starts a brand new dial-up session. Hence, it is impossible to breach their rules, because all sessions are limited to 2 hours.

And as for your comment about 10.1c - FO.

dsmith

The point is that to have the PC auto-redial is the breach. To be 100% within the Ts & Cs you have to manually re-dial.

Pretty sure my auto-dialling Cisco 1603 with ISDN blows the Freeserve Ts & Cs out of the water but at least I know I dont have a leg to stand on when they cut me off....

Deano

Dave P

I'm ADSL but was BT Anytime which I got coz it was sold as unmetered 24/7.

If they plan to meter then they should change the name to BT Sometime....

Dave

RichiW

Thye kicked me off for over useage, with another ISP now, i connect for 16hrs a day(to be safe), with no cut off

Theres a few offering this package now, check out ispreview to find `em.

Rich.

SimonH

I got kicked off for overusage too. Their customer services have been absolutely appalling over the whole thing.
The good thing is it's given me the incentive to take my phone billing elsewhere too. Chisellers.
They suggested I get ADSL. I suggested they pull their fingers out and actually provide the service! Living 2 miles outside Bath and 10 miles from the M4 I am clearly far too remote to access ADSL. Utterly useless shower of sh*t the lot of them

Currently with Freeserve Anytime on 64kb ISDN. No probs getting on but it can really clog up at times...

ChrisB

Load of tosh - course I'm going to re-dial. Like I'm not going to go back and finish the MSN conversation that's going on.

lpitt

Ok,

Contacted BT OpenWorld ADSL yesterday about download restrictions (seeing as I downloaded 3.5GB yesterday it was a worry!).

Here's the reply I got this morning:

===================
BTopenworld Support

Reference Number: $$$$$$$$

Dear Mr Pitt

Thank you for your recent email enquiry regarding restrictions on ADSL, before I give you the information requested I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the lack of "personal touch" with your original query. I have checked all our information and can say that at present there are no plans to restrict ADSL users in any way at all either now or in the near future.

I do hope this is of some assistance to you.

If you have any further problems or enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us on the following:

Email: support@btopenworld.com

Thank you once again for your valued enquiry.

Regards
==============

Although this won't make you feel better if you can't get ADSL, it should make those of us who already have a bit happier.

Laurence

MarkO

Well, I've just had a mail from BTo telling me I'm exceeding their usage limits. Pffff. Tossers.

Looks like I'll be switching to Freeswerve, then.

Oakers

The only problem with freeserve is that you have to designate the phone number you are calling from. After having my account with BT 'Ceased' I ended up paying the extra and getting a 128kb service from Vispa Internet. So far so good. £30 p/m though !!

MarkO

It's a bit of a downer, but not a problem, as I usually only dial up from work. If I need to check my mail elsewhere, I now have a GPRS AirCard to do it from anywhere!

Having said that, I'm going to stick with BT for 2-3 months.

dsmith

Surely if they're that crap then you should dump them rather than keep giving 'em money ?

Deano

MarkO

Well, the new limits come in in November, but for that month they're giving everyone an extra 'free' 50 hours - so I doubt I'll exceed the limits then. In December I'll have at least a week's holiday where I won't be dialling up all day, so again, I won't exceed the limits. So I won't really feel the effects of the limits until the end of January, at which point I'll move if necessary.

Problem is, if I move to Virgin, Freeserve, etc, they still apply the CLID check so I'd only be able to dial-up from my registered number. Whereas with BT, I can (if I want) dial up from anywhere. So it's more convenient - for now.