super_si

one minute people hate graduates next its they dont.

End day i passed with a 1st for my 1st year. Not as if i failed it!

cant live of mam n dad all the time! can i!

Si

[Edited by super_si - 9/8/2002 1:17:39 PM]

darlodge

I am only 20 and I started work at 16 as I never really saw the point of going to college and Uni. Don't get me wrong, for some professions it is essential but in my opinion, in the IT industry experience counts for more than 'paper work'.

When I started work I started as an Office Junior despite wanting and holding the skills for a tech support role. After a few weeks they realised that I was crap at filling and as I knew most of the things related to the network and how to fix them they changed my role over to a junior IT analyst. I started work on 8k pa and after 12 months this increased to 10k pa, after another 12 it increased to 14k pa and now I am on almost 17k pa and I only 20. I got made redundant 2 weeks ago and luckily found another job that suits me really well. I had an interview on Friday that went really well and I find out on Monday or Tuesday if I get the job. Crossed fingers

Basically what I am saying is don't be afraid to start at the bottom of the ladder and work your way up. Sure for those few weeks when I was an Office Junior they treated me like dirt but that showed them that I was not about to walk out when things got a bit nasty.

Hope things turn out okay.

Darren


[Edited by darlodge - 9/8/2002 9:39:36 PM]

super_si

Im really sick of university and decided, ive got my 1st year, im sick of having no money too many lectures, and ive taken on board peoples advice and decided i want to work my way up.

ive being looking for a couple months and not found anything i really want to do.

Looking at dave wallis CV , you/he has loads of NT server , win 2k certificates.

Since jobs are few and far between i want to do some course, i definatly want to get A Level maths because thats whats causing me most problems.

What Other Night course would people reccomend i under take?

Not sure on programming Or Networking!

Thanks All

Si

blp

Have a look into getting into Wireless Networking....

suba

minicab driver?

super_si

serious answers....

dsmith

*imho* having that fact you quit university on your CV will be a far greater hindrance than if you had never been at all.

Anyway thought you were rich ? Maybe if you stopped upgrade in the never ending quest for benchmarks you'd have a bit more money

Most people (myslef included) started doing all round PC support before specialising. The money isn't great but it gives invaluable real world experience. There are few shortcuts to a nice easy well paid job where you can loaf aorund all day surfing the web (thats you MarkO )

Deano

David_Wallis

Si,

Re-read my cv... I dont have the certificates... I've done the courses and read the books, but I dont bother taking the exams... I dont see the point anymore...

like dsmith says its all about experience... I've been using NT since 3.51 so its fair to say I have a fair bit of experience of NT4... (ive still got a beta somewhere..)

Networking isnt boring... Patching and tracing cables under desks and around silly toys stuck to monitors is...

Start young is the easiest way... (I started working at 15/16.. I was effectively an IT Manager / Consultant / Anything at my last place. I went out on site and did installs, I installed our network, I installed our phone system..

Its fun, but after a while you get bored... the hardest thing is working out what you want to do...

I work in a PC support Role at the moment, but I dont really go out and fix the pc's.. I spend more time writing scripts, programs etc so that it makes our job easier...

Be creative with your cv... (Dont lie, they only catch up with you) but make sure its relevant.. then submit it to some agencys... you should be able to get a junior role with no previous experience for about 12k Assuming you are prepared to learn.. after 1/2 years I would expect circa 16k depending on how good you are.

David

super_si

Some company rang me and offerd 13k help disk and 4 days off a week!

But i declinded the offer.

In Non related ive just posted about cv writing as im unsure what to write.

Just read yours and youve got loads qualifications

Si

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Why did you turn it down so quickly?

We all have to start somewhere. I started at 18 on 12k programming, that soon went up to 15 etc.....
I think that what people are trying to say is that you have chosen the uni path and if you are doing well, then stick with it. You are only 19, aren't you?

Just get your head down and finish uni, whilst learning the pc stuff at the same time.

If not, then I don't really think that your knowledge is good enough to be turning your nose up at jobs so easily..

Cheers,

Nick

Foot_Tapper

Si, im in IT as well.
The market is pretty dire at present, both for permanent and
contract roles. The pay is as rock bottom as i've seen it in 7 years. A lot of employers now are not just looking at paper
MCSE's. They would rather have experience in the real world.
A guy who came to contract where i used to work had just taken and passed his Server & Workstation NT4. But he didnt now how to
fdisk and format a drive !!!
If you wanna go into IT these days, its better to go in, as fully
armed as possible. A degree is such a big plus with large corporations.
There are a lot of IT guys looking for work, agencies know this;
pay has fallen....off the edge

super_si

yeah im looking, im off to pop into town tomorrow and see what course i can do.

Id still like A level maths as its really annoyed me all year struggling with it.

Ive got National Diploma in computers and came out top college.

I dont think i could manage using a phone all day, I'd do it if i had too but by choice nope

Si

Miles

Be careful about taking a job in an IT call centre, talking to our guys in the solution centre (call centre with brains essentially), they find it exceptionally hard to specialise and get jobs elsewhere externally and within the company as they've been tagged with "phone support" label. Try and find somewhere where you are hands on rather than on a phone all day.

Also, don't give up uni without thinking about it carefully first. I don't have a degree (although I did three years of CompSci at Aberdeen University, before failing an Ordinary BSc by one mark, grr!) and hence suspect that will be a "glass ceiling" in years to come. It'll only be another couple of years till you've done - it'll be much more hassle going back to Uni in later life.

super_si

yeah i mentioned that on the phone, saying it wasnt for me, he said after 18months youd start climbing up but 18months, is a long time.

Im thinking of totally coming out IT and into Engineering , Possibly electical like my dad, but Colour blindness could prove to be annoying in that field

chiark

Are you absolutely positively sure you want to do this? My brother in law did *just* the same and regretted it to this day...

I couldn't have got my job without a degree, so I'd definitely seriously consider your alternatives.

When I was at uni, I came out at a profit. Admittedly, I didn't have to pay tuition fees, but see what you could do for income.

I wrote for computer magazines (Amiga Computing, CU Amiga) who pay good freelance rates. Going rate was 10p a word. I also worked in a computer shop when I could, and finally I wrote driver software for a graphics tablet. 5 days work *very* well paid when I was a stoodent

Think long and hard about this. Whilst you can do a degree in your future, you'll be in a more difficult position to do so. This might be the best time you will ever have to finish it.

Plus if you got a first, you're doing well at it...

super_si

yeah,same here mate.

Ive only got the £3000 load to support me while im in newcastle to cover living.Accomodation and tution fees are all paid.

As above im confussed, its scary 20 week no propper career path really

druddle

si

i left college (after ond and hnd) and went onto a job doing web design and learning basic unix for a year for 8k.

then moved onto unix support desk for 4.5 yrs and have been in consultancy for 1.5 yrs now. be prepared to work for not alot and learn like billy-o. dont expect big money until you have a few years real experience.

dave

super_si

cheers dave,

thanks for CV ideas too

Want pics of that Audi

Si

gregh

I'd think long and hard about jacking your course in, it will be discussed at any job interviews, and potential employers will think you will only stay with them for 1 year and then sod off.

I now view each qualification I got as just a step up the ladder, I couldn't have got my 1st job without a degree.

greg

Brendan Hughes

Two points in favour of continuing:

1. Agree with the glass ceiling comment. A number of job specifications at age mid-late 20s, early 30s start with "Educated to university degree level". If you stop now you should pray that they add on "or equivalent". Otherwise, no degree = you don't get the job. Even if you've been doing it for six years and the oik with the paper has done it for six months. End of story.

2. A degree is not only used to prove that you know about the subject, it is used to prove that you can knuckle down and achieve difficult tasks within a specific time frame using limited resources. No matter what logical reasoning you come up with to explain why you stopped, people will whisper behind your back "he couldn't hack it". I did a law degree then worked in international development for 8 yrs, nothing to do with law. But they wanted a graduate. If you want to dump IT, you will be the same as any other non-graduate. And when the market has such a flood of graduates to choose from, you'll have to fight extra hard to get something.

Did my law degree, was one of the few people there NOT wanting to become a solicitor or barrister - how demotivating is that? Halfway through the second year, the only thing that kept me from chucking it was the feeling that I would have wasted a year and a half of my family's money, as we only just missed out on a grant. Got a 2.2, went back to do a Masters 10 yrs later, loved it and got 93% final mark. Now I'm doing legal analysis at age 33 and loving it.

Some people DO get good jobs without degrees. They ARE successful and earn packets. But I'd guess they're in the minority.

Good luck

BJH

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

i would try and getting a it job where they will train you up. no point in getting exams if you don't have any experience.

MarkO

Si, if you ditch the degree now, you're a bigger fool than I already thought you were.

Get on with it, knuckle down, and show some committment. Finish the course, and you'll walk out into a far better job, with far better prospects. You'll also have a greater foundation of knowledge on which to build a future career (rather than just going into a 'job').

If I was interviewing you, and found out you'd bailed out of a Uni course after one year, that would be the end of your chances - unless you could produce some fairly strong extenuating circumstances.

Ignore all the people who've been saying "I didn't bother with Uni, I just went straight to work and now I'm 21 and am earning 17k so it must have been a success". The fact is that with an IT degree you'll be able to get a job earning the same or more than they are at the same age, but you'll have had 3 years of drinking/dossing/********/sleeping into the bargain, and your career progression will go far faster. Believe me.

super_si

Thanks lads!

Off for a meeting with the Tutor about this.

Unfortunatly, ive being with the misses 18months So no geordie slappers for si.

Cant Dos neither its not like a geography degree Historys only 5hours a week

darlodge

MarkO why do you say Ignore all the people who've been saying "I didn't bother with Uni, I just went straight to work and now I'm 21 and am earning 17k so it must have been a success"

When I left school I choose not to continue with education and started work instead. Yes I might have been lucky but it was my choice. I was not suggesting that Simon just drops out and starts work. Quitting now would be pointless, all that wasted time and work and it would look awful to a prospective employer that you dropped out when things got difficult etc.

I am personally thinking about doing a degree in my own time just to assist with my career. Like some have said that are jobs that are just not open to non graduates and if you have a degree you are more likely to go on the fast track or similar which means that you will gain promotions and pay rises quicker that your colleagues without degree

Darren

super_si

There's more to it then im letting on aswell.

Poping to college now, seeing about HND in S/w eng or Computer science!

only a year luckily.

I dont see the point on Continuing at the moment, My maths it incredibly weak. thinking doing HND + A Level maths then take it from there

Si

MarkO

TBH, Si, if I were you, I'd do a course in English - perhaps one specialising in spelling, punctuation and grammar.

super_si

thanks, maybe in your infinite spare time.

You could write a spell / grammar checker for the web master

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Si!

Witty answer but wrong concept!

That implies that you'd use it, when you would be better off knowing how to spell and use gramar properly. The same can be applied to careers, such as having an MCSE without having the practical skills/experience to go with it. I think you need to change your whole perspective when it comes as to how you wish to proceed in your life/career.

I would have to admit to not being "academicaly inclined" and I left school with one A-level & no intention of going anywhere near a univeristy (I probably, if truth be told, regret that now, if only for the "target rich environment" ). That then left me with "what to do"? I drifted about odd jobs for a couple of years, then became a motorcycle/van courier because it was all the qualifications I had (a driving licence) and I had £150 with which I bought a clapped out Mini Clubman Estate. I'm not saying I regret those times, but for a number of years it was a hand to mouth existance, living in squats and no money spare. I wasn't getting anywhere, so I made a determined effort to "do something" about it. This consisted of getting my **** in order and moving office bound (no money as a courier). It was also about taking and making opportunities and when I joined my last company, there was a "small" IT role to play. The company grew and my job expanded with it. They paid for a CNE (& I took the CNA exam only) but the rest of my experience is hands on at the sharp end, doing 48hr w-ends (WillieF & ChrisB know about them ) and getting your hands dirty.

So think about what you're going to do. I would recommend not junking Uni as if nothing else, its a step up the salary ladder once you leave and continue spending your time tinkering with computers, gaining knowledge & experience.

Oh & there is an extremely nice chap I know (friend of a BBS'er) who "supplements" his grant by IT consultation. He earns more now as a part-timer working w/ends & non lecture days than the majority of his uni collegues will ever earn He is very good though.

MarkO

That's Si shafted then.

MrDeference

Si,
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are right. You don't seem to want to do Uni, and don't have a "can do" attitude. University is all about learning how to learn, and most of the time you ask for help rather than trying to get the answer under your own steam.

The whole point of uni is that it is trying to create original thinkers, rather than people who rely on others for guidance. Remember they are research establishments primarily, and by definition require people who can work in a totally new area.

You need a practical based course, with lots of lab time. An HND would be a better choice, and so long as you can explain your choice to someone in interview, they won't judge you too harshly for it; it is better to spot a weekness and address it, than to ignore it, hoping it will go away. One will leave you with a qualification worth having, the other won't.

Don't even consider Electrical Engineering (I think you mentioned it in another thread). If your maths is anything less than 100% you will be in real difficulty very soon.
I hope you get it sorted.