Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

After 3 years of ownership I have just got the bug for detailing

But here's my problem, the paint was in below average condition but after a huge polishing mission (4 days) car looked amazing, like glass, not a scratch in sight I'm very happy with the results.
After 2 washes I can see scratches/swirls in the paint......aint impressed!!!

Clean & Polishing Method:
- 2 Bucket method, Lambswool Wash Mitt with Meguiars Next Generation Soap.
- Clayed with Meguiars white Clay.
- Washed again.
- Polished with Meguiars 220 - RD3.02, then again with 85RD (amazing finish)
- Then waxed with Collinite 476s doublecoat wax
- Buffed off lightly with machine with polishing bonnet speed 1.

Washing Method:
- 2 Bucket method, Lambswool Wash Mitt with Meguiars Next Generation Soap.
- Dried with Meguiars water magnet microfibre cloth.

So that's it really, thought I had done everything I needed to do.
The washmitt and buckets are brand new and are all rinsed thoroughly before use.
Isn't the wax supposed to offer some protection from swirls?

I'm prepared to re-polish it again but not if it'll scratch again after 2 washes.


Any help and advice would be really appreciated.
Cheers

johnson12

The only thing i would say is to try a grit guard.

53

iTrader: (41)

Pre-wash with a foam gun and a quality shampoo. This will get off the larger debris. Once rinsed its almost like washing a nearly clean car !

I hate wash mitts and only use a foam Schmitt.

I use a grit guard to prevent grit in the bottom of the bucket swirling up to the schmitt.

Never wash your cloths with tablet detergent instead use a small blob of shampoo on the mf and place in machine. Put 2 capfulls of white vinegar in the wash and conditioner tray to refluff and rejuvenate cloths which are clogged with wax and product.

Avoid waxing outside on windy days , dust !

Always use a QD spritz on any towel going near the paint dry.

Probably loads more but the more vigilant you can be the better

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Wow thanks, thats a lot to remember!

Is the pre-wash and foam the key then, to getting rid of the worst grit?
Does everyone use foam??

How much protection from grit does wax give? Any?

Tim Bomford

Wax wont protect you from grit, but a grit guard will help!
How bad are the new swirls? If they are as bad as before it suggests the polish filled them, but unlikely. If there are the odd few then its down to wash technique pure and simple.
2 buckets and grit guards, mitt or zymol sponge. dry with the best drying towel you can afford and see how you get on.

Best wishes

Tim

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

There are some horizontal lines (from me washing it) as well as slight swirls all over in direct sunlight.

No where near as bad as before the original swirld/scratches took some real effort to cut through them, definately got rid of em for sure! Thats what you get with 3 years of a sponge

I'll definately try the grit guard, and keep an monitor the swirls. If they dont worsen I'll repolish and try again.

Tim Bomford

OK well good luck and keep us posted, sounds like a combination of washing (the horizontal ones) and drying (the all over ones).
Dont be disheartened though, its a different ball game when you start to take a real interest and get into it, well done for making the change.

sparkce

Hi stevo it sounds to me like you need to have you car machine mopped not polished, machine mopping will cut back the scratch but only the one's that your finger nail dose not get caught in when you touch it they are to deep and need paint.

Hope this helps mate sparkce.

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

Stevo,

As well as the pre-soak, try using a quick detailer (like Megs Last Touch) to spray on before taking the mitt to it. Then spray it again before you dry it.

This just adds more lubricant to the surface to reduce any chance of swirls.

V4JDMSTi

iTrader: (2)

same thing. mop is the old fashioned term. what you are talking about it now described as a rotary. the machine and products that the op is using are some of the best available and are more than capable of giving the desired level of correction.

the g220 which is a da machine will correct just as much as a rotary with the right pad and polish combo, which imo the op is using. it's a myth that a da machine won't correct as much as a rotary. they will a roatry can be quicker but not always. you'll still go through paint with a da if you're not working properly / carefully.

yes you're right about if you get a finger nail in the scratch it's likely you won't get it out but not gospel. all depends on how much clear coat / paint there is available to be polished away.

i agree with the comments by 53wrx and Tim. i'd be looking to add in grit guards and ditch the megs water magnet drying towel for something like the mothers super deluxe drying towel or a sonus der wonder and pat dry. ultimately ditch drying towels all together and get hold of a leaf blower.

53

iTrader: (41)

I never wash a car without it

Nick_Cat

iTrader: (5)

Excellent thread this. I've used similar kit to the op and got similar problems, i.e. very fine scratches visible after only a couple of washes. I live out in the sticks and get quite a lot of crude on the car especially lower down the body.

I will invest in a grit guard but I also suspect the drying is at fault: I use a poorboys waffle and weave to pat dry. Perhaps I should sheet the excess water off and leave to dry natually and then apply some sealant which will also remove any water stains . That or a leaf blower and then the neighbours will think I really am cuckoo.

Cheers
Nick

53

iTrader: (41)

Spritzed waffle weave pat drying is fine

My car is pretty well waxed and after sheeting only requires a simple going over with pat drying.

Grit guards are good to keep the grit at the bottom.

I also use a Gilmour foam gun on each panel before I wash it. So foam, wash, rinse wash mitt/foam pad whatever, rinse panel and so on.

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Wow thanks for all your replies, gonna need to invest in a foam lance & some more towels and try the padding dry technique

Keep any more suggestions coming.
Thanks again.

scoobyverysoon

iTrader: (1)

As already said a foam gun is a must - keep the car wet/foamed until youve finished washing it just gives itthat extra lube it needs to stop it marking the paint

if the car is minging remember to change your rince bucket a few times

if you cant afford gilmore gun use something I use does the job fine





gilmore is like 5o quid this cost £7.00 and used with megs hyper wash its even more suddy - pic was with gold class

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for that mate, is Gilmore better than a SnowFoam attachment to a pressure washer?

Your car look great in VMS.

53

iTrader: (41)

I did some reviews of foam guns on youtube.

Have a look in view my scooby

The super spray is an excellent budget product for prewashing lightly soiled paint

Its also good to spray over the car before sheeting if you have been washing in full sun and the car has got water/shampoo marks already.

Gilmour produces a good foam, but munches lots of shampoo to produce what a foam gun and pressure washer will do with very little shampoo. I have all three because I am foam mad, but in my defence I use them all differently in the quest to reduce swirls

scoobyverysoon

iTrader: (1)

Never tried them TBH I would expect so but as the above post says they all do different things so get what ever one you can afford

Thanks i need to update it with my new 18" wheels

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Ah ha, yes they are good videos, like the lance. Seems to have much better cover.
Its doesnt replace washing it though does it, this is just the first stage before the mitts let loose?? Novice alert

sparkce

i don't get it you all say more foam more foam lub it up.
But i say less mean you can actually see what you are surpose to be cleaning?
Correct me if i am wrong please
Sparkce

53

iTrader: (41)

Pre-wash or pre-soak, foam is left to dwell 5 minutes and lifts and loosens dirt and grime to be rinsed ready for cleaning. Using foam or suds during the wash is just good practice when cleaning your pride and joy.

johnson12

Using foam or suds during the wash is just good practice when cleaning your pride and joy.[/QUOTE]

Could not agree more. you want swirls or you dont.

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Just been out to log the evidence and to be honest I feel sick at the results.
Didnt realise it was that bad. Maybe I should stop washing it with 280 grit wet & dry
To be fair thats probably as bad as it was before I blitzed it, exept now you can see the red flake underneath the scratches

53

iTrader: (41)

Looks like poor claying technique to me, it's not as easy as you might think, and megs white can do that if dirty, too cold or used with too much pressure or insufficient lube. I use clay more regularly but stick with the mild sonus green and a bucket of lube .

All is not lost though, depending on where you are in the country that is easily corrected with a very fine polish using a finishing pad. I had my black scoob polished with menz and a polishing pad via the rotary and it came up dandy. DON'T PANIC

Where abouts are you ?

harry007

where can i buy that bottle from?

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Hi mate, how can it be claying when I polished all the marks out with the megs? Plus I used the whole bottle of lube!!
Im up North in Huddersfield.

scoobyverysoon

iTrader: (1)

From here Car Washing they actually used my pic to advertise it on there website they do deals for multiple buys

Rich @ PB

iTrader: (3)

A few thoughts from me, to add the excellent points raised above. Defects arise from particles of dust and grime being moved around over the paint. If you try to minimise any chance of this happening you will rarely see any new marring or swirls (we've had our new C2 six months, and it's still spot on in the sun, even after 20+ washes). Where most people go wrong is...

(a) not pre-rinsing enough, either with water (good) or foam (better). Time spent pre-rinsing and removing as much cack as possible ahead of the hand wash is time well spent.

(b) not being gentle enough with the wash mitt. Too many folk tend to scrub the paint and move the mitt around rapidly and without due care; slowly and surely with very light pressure is a much better technique to use.

(c) grit guards aren't necessary if you work in the top few inches of water in the buckets and change the rinse water regularly. Too many people with grit guards get lazy and become less careful as they assume the grit guard will automatically save them - it won't. Get into the habit of checking your mitt for lingering debris every time it comes out of the rinse bucket.

(d) when drying off, don't wipe dry - one way ticket to fresh marring. Pat dry with a waffle weave towel, or even better, use a leaf blower - touchless drying helps massively in the long run.

However, those defects shown above look too severe for simple wash mitt or wipe dry marring? It looks like a significant amount of grit has been moved around on the surface, the chances of which happening should have been tiny given your kit list and suggested method?

Stevo210

iTrader: (4)

Wow thanks PB for that 'how to' guide, and quite right all the other good advice I have received. Unfortunately I have failed miserably on point a), b), c) & D).

This is clearly a sharp learning curve for me as you can see from the photos above, I'm learning fast though! (Incidentally those photos are the worse area of the whole car, only by pure chance I picked that spot.)

Looking back at the washes that its had, the level of dirt was high, and it was barely pre-washed, think I had to much faith in the 'magic' wash mitt to cure everything. A little knowledge is dangerous!!!

I'll get tooled up with a lance, grit guard and appropriate towels, Ive got a leaf blower so that's a good start.

Then I'll re-polish to get it back to how it was. I'll try and document it along the way and keep everyone informed.

Thanks to everyone again.