Bob Crow dead
19 March 2014, 09:38 AM
#181
But theses 70's comments need to be seen in context
How where they for our contemporary countries - France, Germany United States?
The 70's started with the Oil crises that affected the word economy - and was coupled with a genera Global slowdown, a hangover from the postwar boom
How where they for our contemporary countries - France, Germany United States?
The 70's started with the Oil crises that affected the word economy - and was coupled with a genera Global slowdown, a hangover from the postwar boom
Maybe in France they did.
Here is an interesting little snippet from a BBC article I just looked at from a google search on the subject.
"But there was one moment in the Autumn of 1984 when Mrs Thatcher almost lost her bottle.
The NACODS pit deputies were preparing to join the strike, which would have closed the Nottingham coal field. She offered a peace deal to Scargill, but he refused to take it.
His loyal deputy Mick McGahey admitted privately: "Arthur has won and he doesn't even know it. He will destroy this union."
He was right. The deputies' strike didn't happen. The miners lost, returning to work humiliated in 1985."
A case of not missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity I guess.
Last edited by cster; 19 March 2014 at 09:40 AM.
19 March 2014, 10:16 AM
#182
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Na, that's F1 mate - maybe she is wearing striped socks and red shoes in it?
TBH, I never thought much of her in the day and never voted for her or the conservatives during her "reign" despite being able to do so since 1983. So when people go on about wishing she was dead etc. I couldn't care less. If they want to do that, well it's a free country and a matter of personal choice I guess.
It is just that I adore the way lefties go on and on and on about her. As for the complete state of denial about how f***ed this country was in the late 70s. Well what can you say? Someone had to put a bit of stick about.
I guess politics were more interesting then, partly to do with the very real backdrop of the Cold War? - so maybe a bit of boredom is not such a bad thing.
They say "there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about."
Now who was this thread about?
TBH, I never thought much of her in the day and never voted for her or the conservatives during her "reign" despite being able to do so since 1983. So when people go on about wishing she was dead etc. I couldn't care less. If they want to do that, well it's a free country and a matter of personal choice I guess.
It is just that I adore the way lefties go on and on and on about her. As for the complete state of denial about how f***ed this country was in the late 70s. Well what can you say? Someone had to put a bit of stick about.
I guess politics were more interesting then, partly to do with the very real backdrop of the Cold War? - so maybe a bit of boredom is not such a bad thing.
They say "there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about."
Now who was this thread about?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, and we do still talk about that women, but we talk about Hitler as well don't we?
Guess it depends what side of the fence you are on, some people get talked about because they were evil.
Crow made some people late for work, Thatcher closed pits putting people on the dole, closed hospitals so people died, was losing in the polls so turned a ship around and sunk an Argentinian battleship sailing away from the Falklands, more lifes lost.... the list goes on.
19 March 2014, 10:41 AM
#183
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Not a bad effort, since she's been dead a while now.
You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about this woman.
It is as though you go to bed with her every night and wake up with her every morn.
Why don't you move on, just let go?
Hate is too strong an emotion to waste on someone you don't like - especially when they're dead.
You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about this woman.
It is as though you go to bed with her every night and wake up with her every morn.
Why don't you move on, just let go?
Hate is too strong an emotion to waste on someone you don't like - especially when they're dead.
Oh I think you will find that it was the last government in power that has made sure that the' entire next generation' of this countries leaders were never told when they were wrong and got medals just for turning up for school sports day.
Your own comments make me wonder if you were part of the leading edge of that wave as you don't like being told you are wrong.
Your own comments make me wonder if you were part of the leading edge of that wave as you don't like being told you are wrong.
Put simply Thatcher dismantled society including all the good things and reshaped it into the 'dog eat dog' selfish egotistical 'I'm alright Jack' society we have today in the UK as is evident by many posters on this forum who judge her legacy by the fact they have done well..... and don;t give a f**k about anyone else.
But theses 70's comments need to be seen in context
How where they for our contemporary countries - France, Germany United States?
The 70's started with the Oil crises that affected the word economy - and was coupled with a genera Global slowdown, a hangover from the postwar boom
How where they for our contemporary countries - France, Germany United States?
The 70's started with the Oil crises that affected the word economy - and was coupled with a genera Global slowdown, a hangover from the postwar boom
19 March 2014, 11:02 AM
#184
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Oh and as a footnote to the miners' strike and Thatcher's great 'victory' the communities destroyed as a result of the pits being closed still to this day have an average unemployment rate of 3 times that of the national average. Great job Mrs. T. 
This quote from an article by Neil Prior on the subject stands out for me:
This quote from an article by Neil Prior on the subject stands out for me:
The political arguments are all well-rehearsed and largely pointless. In many ways the decline of deep mining was inevitable and has been mirrored all over the world.
What was utterly mismanaged - by successive governments of all colours - was the transition to other industries, and that's what we have to get right now if we're to avoid having the same debate in another 30 years' time.
Transport, inward investment, education and most importantly belief in the future are key investments which will require a government having vision beyond a five-year parliament.
What was utterly mismanaged - by successive governments of all colours - was the transition to other industries, and that's what we have to get right now if we're to avoid having the same debate in another 30 years' time.
Transport, inward investment, education and most importantly belief in the future are key investments which will require a government having vision beyond a five-year parliament.
19 March 2014, 01:36 PM
#185
Neil Prior is dead right.
The arguments are completely pointless. People do need to move on in ways that will benefit themselves and their children (if they can be arsed).
"Belief in the future" stands out in particular.
Why do people insist on wallowing in the past?
Is it considered "British" to be perpetually miserable or something?
The arguments are completely pointless. People do need to move on in ways that will benefit themselves and their children (if they can be arsed).
"Belief in the future" stands out in particular.
Why do people insist on wallowing in the past?
Is it considered "British" to be perpetually miserable or something?
19 March 2014, 02:28 PM
#186
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Oh and as a footnote to the miners' strike and Thatcher's great 'victory' the communities destroyed as a result of the pits being closed still to this day have an average unemployment rate of 3 times that of the national average. Great job Mrs. T.
This quote from an article by Neil Prior on the subject stands out for me:
This quote from an article by Neil Prior on the subject stands out for me:
No real regional industrial policy - just market forces
Can you imagine that happening in Germany
And as you say some communities have never recovered
19 March 2014, 03:03 PM
#187
Fi Fan.
is it correct to say that you grew up in an environment that was both anti-tory and also affected by the aftermath of the failed miners strike?
Just looking for some perspective to the 'fervour' of your comments.
I did CSE Politics at School (I didn't go to a grammar School) and as part of that course we looked at the whole unions v's the governments of Heath, Wilson, Callahan and Thatcher.
What many like yourself fail to realise/seem to forget (dependent on your age) is that some of the unions successfully brought down those previous governments and that Scargill was expecting the same to happen - but did not anticipate the 'overall' GB-Nationwide shift in attitudes of people away from the union support due to things like the power cuts (see three day week on wikipedia)that affected everyone.
Unfortunately, for the Miners, the majority of the national support was therefore just not with them - as the historic opinion polls at the time showed. The people who did not benefit from strike action were simply sick of strikes.
is it correct to say that you grew up in an environment that was both anti-tory and also affected by the aftermath of the failed miners strike?
Just looking for some perspective to the 'fervour' of your comments.
I did CSE Politics at School (I didn't go to a grammar School) and as part of that course we looked at the whole unions v's the governments of Heath, Wilson, Callahan and Thatcher.
What many like yourself fail to realise/seem to forget (dependent on your age) is that some of the unions successfully brought down those previous governments and that Scargill was expecting the same to happen - but did not anticipate the 'overall' GB-Nationwide shift in attitudes of people away from the union support due to things like the power cuts (see three day week on wikipedia)that affected everyone.
Unfortunately, for the Miners, the majority of the national support was therefore just not with them - as the historic opinion polls at the time showed. The people who did not benefit from strike action were simply sick of strikes.
Last edited by Hol; 19 March 2014 at 03:07 PM.
19 March 2014, 03:19 PM
#189
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PS Scargill never really thought for one minute he would bring down Thatcher's government... I expect that's why CSEs are largely considered p1ss poor qualifications if that is the sort of crap they proliferated!
Last edited by f1_fan; 19 March 2014 at 03:22 PM.
19 March 2014, 04:28 PM
#190
Nope, both parents staunch Conservatives and I grew up in Kent/London... a very middle class upbringing, but I have always had a brain in my head and decided to make up my own mind about politics and society by reading a lot and observing even more. I didn't like what I saw under Thatcher/Major or Blair/Brown and think the country as a whole is a lot worse off than it was 40 years ago... and no I don't mean financially... I am talking about society as a whole.
PS Scargill never really thought for one minute he would bring down Thatcher's government... I expect that's why CSEs are largely considered p1ss poor qualifications if that is the sort of crap they proliferated!
PS Scargill never really thought for one minute he would bring down Thatcher's government... I expect that's why CSEs are largely considered p1ss poor qualifications if that is the sort of crap they proliferated!
Pps He did just that - no matter what you think, so you would have failed those **** poor exams, because your theory needs two and two to make five.
The ONLY thing I agree with you is that this country is worse than it was 40 years ago. I don't think we can agree that bringing down the unions caused it.
IMHO it's a general lack of morals bought about by 'trendy' social interference started by Blair and Co.
19 March 2014, 04:57 PM
#191
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Bear in mind that the 80s was a time when Reagan and Thatcher were in power and brainwashed a whole generation so much so they thought the movie Wall Street and the song Born inthe USA were mantras to live by rather than illustrations of what was wrong with sociey that their creators intended them to be.
19 March 2014, 05:02 PM
#192
From my point of view society back then was a lot worse and coming from a poor ethnic minority background, was highly prejudiced. What aspect of society was better back then? There is no doubting that there is a greater disparity between the rich and the poor, but is that really attributable to Thatcher? There is greater social mobility now than there was back then. People are more willing to move away to look for work not just around our country but to other countries around the world and this isn't just happening in ol' Blighty, this has been happening to all industrialised countries around the world. As a result this has brought about mass migration of people and with it both positive and negative aspects of immigration. People want to better themselves and have every right to and some people being a lot more successful than others. Success should be celebrated but instead people prefer to ridicule and critisize those who have success rather than take responsibility for their own situation. Success breeds contempt.
19 March 2014, 05:24 PM
#193
Passing was easy, getting a grade good enough to allow you to do other stuff so you can retire early was the hard bit.
My recollection of the 70/80's was that people made do with what they had and didn't spunk their future earnings away on credit to pay for things they did not need.
However, because everyone in the 90's and noughties had a big telly, DVD, VCR, Washing machines, Dishwashers and inside bogs, you could also argue that the standard of living was better!!
But, that bought in the subsequent increase of people taking voluntary bankruptcy, the associated sub prime market collapse and the increase in UK Government Ltd's borrowing from international banks (which is rather ironic, if you think about it).
My recollection of the 70/80's was that people made do with what they had and didn't spunk their future earnings away on credit to pay for things they did not need.
However, because everyone in the 90's and noughties had a big telly, DVD, VCR, Washing machines, Dishwashers and inside bogs, you could also argue that the standard of living was better!!
But, that bought in the subsequent increase of people taking voluntary bankruptcy, the associated sub prime market collapse and the increase in UK Government Ltd's borrowing from international banks (which is rather ironic, if you think about it).
19 March 2014, 05:36 PM
#194
19 March 2014, 06:38 PM
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19 March 2014, 06:43 PM
#200
I think it best ignore his ranting now,
He probably has an ology in something useless, that he got while sitting in class twiddling his fudge and making eyes at the 'professor' who indoctrinated him with his extreme views.
Hopefully it is not contagious.
But, it's still a good idea to stock up on penicillin.
I have to agree, it's true what people say about F1.
19 March 2014, 08:40 PM
#202
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I think it best ignore his ranting now,
He probably has an ology in something useless, that he got while sitting in class twiddling his fudge and making eyes at the 'professor' who indoctrinated him with his extreme views.
Hopefully it is not contagious.
But, it's still a good idea to stock up on penicillin.
I have to agree, it's true what people say about F1.
He probably has an ology in something useless, that he got while sitting in class twiddling his fudge and making eyes at the 'professor' who indoctrinated him with his extreme views.
Hopefully it is not contagious.
But, it's still a good idea to stock up on penicillin.
I have to agree, it's true what people say about F1.
19 March 2014, 09:05 PM
#203
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Oi!
I failed a few of my CSE's.... But old thicko here has ended up owning a £500k house with a 2 acre paddock, several decent vehicles and takes nice holidays every year.
If it wasn't for Maggie's YTS scheme, I possibly wouldn't have any of the above.
(I seem to remember I passed O level history though )
I failed a few of my CSE's.... But old thicko here has ended up owning a £500k house with a 2 acre paddock, several decent vehicles and takes nice holidays every year.
If it wasn't for Maggie's YTS scheme, I possibly wouldn't have any of the above.
(I seem to remember I passed O level history though
)
Last edited by zip106; 19 March 2014 at 09:07 PM.
19 March 2014, 09:23 PM
#204
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Oi!
I failed a few of my CSE's.... But old thicko here has ended up owning a £500k house with a 2 acre paddock, several decent vehicles and takes nice holidays every year.
If it wasn't for Maggie's YTS scheme, I possibly wouldn't have any of the above.
(I seem to remember I passed O level history though )
I failed a few of my CSE's.... But old thicko here has ended up owning a £500k house with a 2 acre paddock, several decent vehicles and takes nice holidays every year.
If it wasn't for Maggie's YTS scheme, I possibly wouldn't have any of the above.
(I seem to remember I passed O level history though
)Last edited by Chip; 19 March 2014 at 09:24 PM.
19 March 2014, 09:32 PM
#205
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What I do and don't do is up to me and I don't feel the need or desire to post on here about it!
19 March 2014, 11:33 PM
#208
Ref: "there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, and we do still talk about that women, but we talk about Hitler as well don't we?
Guess it depends what side of the fence you are on, some people get talked about because they were evil.
Crow made some people late for work, Thatcher closed pits putting people on the dole, closed hospitals so people died, was losing in the polls so turned a ship around and sunk an Argentinian battleship sailing away from the Falklands, more lifes lost.... the list goes on.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, and we do still talk about that women, but we talk about Hitler as well don't we?
Guess it depends what side of the fence you are on, some people get talked about because they were evil.
Crow made some people late for work, Thatcher closed pits putting people on the dole, closed hospitals so people died, was losing in the polls so turned a ship around and sunk an Argentinian battleship sailing away from the Falklands, more lifes lost.... the list goes on.
Godwin's Law strikes again!Crow did make people late for work, and that included doctors and nurses trying to get the hospitals resulting increased suffering and delays in treatments for patients and cost London businesses millions in losses. It was Argentina that invaded and took a piece of British territory by force, yes there were many casualties on both sides, that is the price of war. But lets get some perspective here; hospitals still continue to close saddled with massive debts for decades to come thanks to PFI agreements that Labour brought in. Labour created the "benefits lifestyle", where no one want to take responsibility for themselves and created the blame-claim culture. Blair took this country into a war of questionable legality. The Falklands conflict lasted 74 days and was won under the leadership of Thatcher. Blair's war on terror is still on-going and we still have troops in the middle east since 2002 with casualties numbering in the thousands whilst Blair becomes peace envoy for the middle east.
Last edited by jonc; 20 March 2014 at 07:41 AM.
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