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Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.

Old 19 December 2014, 10:11 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
Hi with is the best spring for fast road/track day? Would go for the P11, but maybe P11-6. My springs are the KYB AGX adjustables..
Thanks
The damper dictates the ride quality.
If track days are a serious part of the intended use, I'd have the wr15 road/track springs and set the dampers to 3 front and 5 or 6 rear - I've had the agx's tested on their range of settings, so I am aware of their capabilities.
Flat-ride suspension comfort is very much part of the wr15's design.
The bump stops are going to be very important. Bilstein are testing 7 front and 4 rear, suitable for agx's, in the new year.

Scott.T will hopefully be along to give you a few thoughts on his track day experiences, with regard to spring rates
HTH

Last edited by 2pot; 19 December 2014 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 20 December 2014, 09:25 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
Hi with is the best spring for fast road/track day? Would go for the P11, but maybe P11-6. My springs are the KYB AGX adjustables..
Thanks
The WR15 R/T would be the best option for the AGX and occasional Track use.
During this process I have lost count of the spring swaps performed on my car. But by far the best spring for cornering/positive turn in were the STi Lowered Pinks when combined with the late WR Bilstein (these would perform similar to the AGX due to the AGX flexibility of hard or soft setting options).

I did have AGX for a short time and they felt a little harder then the Bilstein WR, when running the same springs (these were Eibach's at the time).

The WR15 R/T is aimed at providing the same positive turn-in as the STi lowered Pink.
When the STi Lowered Pinks were measured/rated and we later obtained information regarding the original rating of the WR Spring, it was found that these were a good match to the WR Blistein, front damper.
The new WR15 R/T will allow just a few more mm of clearance when compared to the STi Lowered Pink.

I do mainly spirited road work in what is now a weekend car, and probably go on track about 4 or 5 time per year. Anywhere from Goodwood to Nurburgring.

I have run all of the following on road and track conditions (I have run alot more variants on road) :

Eibach, Tein S-Tech, P1 and STi Lowered Pink, all on the late WR Bilstein dampers.
I would rate them in the following order :

1. STi Lowered Pink
2. P1 Red
3. Eibach
4. Tein S-Tech

If running on the road with more then 2 people in the car (or a full tank of fuel), the P1 gives a better 'spirited' ride then the STi Pink, but the downside is you loose the fantastic 'turn-in' of the STi lowered Pink.

The rear STi Pink was also pretty good, if a little under-rated for the late WR Bilsteins. These would probably be a better match for the earlier Bilsteins or P1 Dampers, as they were originally designed for the STi range.

Therefore the rear WR15 R/T is rated higher and to a similar rate to that originally intended for the late WR Bilstein.

My overall summary for my circumstance is :

The STi Lowered Pink (not to be confused with the regular STi Pink available) works well and provide a dramatic change to the stance and turn-in. The compromise is they sit just a touch too low, when running 18's and an ET51 (or less) offset. They may be fine on 17's and ET53, but I would still doubt the rear, as it is a touch soft.

The WR15 R/T aim to remove that compromise. The higher rating rear is aimed at providing a better front to rear match and allow you more confidence that your not going to bottom out on your favourite A/B road, when running more then 2-up or with a full tank.

The P1 Spring I found a little bouncy on the rear and it only lowered the rear by about 5mm IIRC, when compared to my previous Eibach.
A lot of people complain when fitting Eibach, that they didn't lower as much as they thought.
The P1 spring would also fall into this category.

Therefore for those that want a lower stance then the Eibach, I would not recommend the P11 (that is now available), but go for the P11-6 or WR15 R/T

Last edited by Scott.T; 20 December 2014 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 20 December 2014, 12:40 PM
  #213  
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twistybits - P11-6
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2pot WR15 R/T
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Old 20 December 2014, 03:26 PM
  #214  
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Thanks U 2
My car is a 450 hp 1995 Wrx, wich stands a littel higher than the Sti as OE
My first priority is to drive on Nurburgring, going 2-3 times a year.
I run 17 " Wheels, would never run 18īs
And I dont whant to lower too much.. I do like that there are a gab to the wheels.

At the moment I have some 5-6 years old red Eibach Sports (cant buy them any more), and are happy with them, but both my front springs has snaped on the bottom end, and 2-3 cm are gone.
I think they lowered the car 30mm, but would not mind to raise it up a littel.
And I dont like coilovers

Should I still go for the Wr ones?

Last edited by Eacy; 20 December 2014 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 20 December 2014, 04:42 PM
  #215  
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Oh, something I didn't think about-

The 13.25" ride height for the WR15 R/T, that is with 17" wheels, correct? So I would assume closer to 13" with stock US 16" wheels? Will that be too low?

Also, since they haven't been discussed much, the to be developed Gymkhana springs, what spring rate, what ride height, what damper could be used with it?

Grtz.
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Old 20 December 2014, 05:06 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by qsl View Post
Oh, something I didn't think about-

The 13.25" ride height for the WR15 R/T, that is with 17" wheels, correct? So I would assume closer to 13" with stock US 16" wheels? Will that be too low?

Also, since they haven't been discussed much, the to be developed Gymkhana springs, what spring rate, what ride height, what damper could be used with it?

Grtz.
Hi
13.25"ish is wheel centre to arch, so wheel/tyre diameter doesn't matter.

I think there's very little possibility of enough people wanting track/road springs, let alone the other options - probably 13.75" 270/250 AGX/Koni's, Bilsteins would have to be re-valved. I might do myself a set, just for fun.

Last edited by 2pot; 20 December 2014 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 20 December 2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
Thanks U 2
My car is a 450 hp 1995 Wrx, wich stands a littel higher than the Sti as OE
My first priority is to drive on Nurburgring, going 2-3 times a year.
I run 17 " Wheels, would never run 18īs
And I dont whant to lower too much.. I do like that there are a gab to the wheels.

At the moment I have some 5-6 years old red Eibach Sports (cant buy them any more), and are happy with them, but both my front springs has snaped on the bottom end, and 2-3 cm are gone.
I think they lowered the car 30mm, but would not mind to raise it up a littel.
And I dont like coilovers

Should I still go for the Wr ones?
What's the distance between the wheel centre and the arch, on the rear of your car?
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Old 20 December 2014, 08:30 PM
  #218  
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Rear is 34,4cm and front is 33,5 cm, , 10mm higher would be ok
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Old 20 December 2014, 08:59 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
At the moment I have some 5-6 years old red Eibach Sports (cant buy them any more), and are happy with them, but both my front springs has snaped on the bottom end, and 2-3 cm are gone.
I think they lowered the car 30mm, but would not mind to raise it up a littel.
And I dont like coilovers

Should I still go for the Wr ones?
The Red Eibach's that were discontinued, AFAIK were very close to if not the same as the original WR spring (which may also be why they were discontinued, if Prodrive had helped to develop them).
These gave a lower stance than the regular Black Eibach's.

Therefore I would advise you go for the WR15 R/T.
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Old 20 December 2014, 09:01 PM
  #220  
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SilverSufer removed, as that's me on another forum , unless someone else has my username elsewhere........

twistybits - P11-6
topshot - P11-6
Scooby Wagon - P11-6
piehole1983 - P11-6 (NI)


2pot WR15 R/T
Scott.T WR15 R/T
qsl WR15 R/T (US)
Geddesk2_2 WR15 R/T (US)
HighRevimpreza WR15 R/T (US)


bonestter P11
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Rob669 P11
rusty&dusty P11
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Old 20 December 2014, 09:20 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
Rear is 34,4cm and front is 33,5 cm, , 10mm higher would be ok
You want P1 height at the front and 20mm higher than p1 at the rear? Why?

335mm is WR15 R/T front.

Last edited by 2pot; 20 December 2014 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 20 December 2014, 10:08 PM
  #222  
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I thought people would have jumped a chance for good springs by now.......
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Old 21 December 2014, 01:52 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by piehole1983 View Post
I thought people would have jumped a chance for good springs by now.......
Don’t think it is that easy. At this point, the springs are still an unknown quantity, and they lack the legitimacy of some race shop or a major manufacturer. Better the devil you know…

And if something goes wrong, there isn’t a means to rectify it. Should the springs crack or rust like the other P1 springs, will Eibach still stand behind them?

And honestly, it is a shame. Reading through the other parts thread, these may well be the most comprehensive springs ever developed for the GC8. The level and depth of research is astounding, and there is 15 years of trials to draw from.

But for right now, they are a dark horse.

And it’s winter. No one thinks about car upgrades during winter (except the racing guys).

If we could develop just one set of springs that could be all things to all people, we’d be mostly there.

It might be good to look in that direction. Given all options, what is the best spring and strut combination that might entice others to give up their present setups.

Reading the Gymkhana thread on RS 2.5, I might be willing to forgo the price effectiveness of the AGXs if the benefits were that much more using something else.

Last edited by qsl; 21 December 2014 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 21 December 2014, 09:05 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
You want P1 height at the front and 20mm higher than p1 at the rear? Why?

335mm is WR15 R/T front.
Just saying what the hight is now, and dont whant to go lower than that, could be a littel higher, as the GC8 dont like to be lowered to much.

Do U know the hight on the rear with the WR15?
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Old 21 December 2014, 09:18 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by Eacy View Post
Just saying what the hight is now, and dont whant to go lower than that, could be a littel higher, as the GC8 dont like to be lowered to much.

Do U know the hight on the rear with the WR15?
WR15 rear height is same as the WR99 prodrive spring, which is 5mm(ish) lower than the P1 rear.
HTH
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Old 21 December 2014, 10:11 AM
  #226  
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Just a thought, if you're out there with a tape measure.

It's not unusual for the side-to-side standard front ride heights to differ by 5-10mm, probably allowing for battery weight during cornering?
Also, spring manufactures do look at you a bit weirdly, when you say just reduce/increase the ride height by 3mm. As this is often with the manufacturing tolerance.

Depending how you're measuring - wheel centre to arch, floor to arch - temperature, type of damper, pressures, road surface, weight distribution, fuel tank level, all play a part.

I think if you're getting +/- 4mm consistency, when measuring, your doing well.

Last edited by 2pot; 21 December 2014 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 21 December 2014, 10:26 AM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by qsl View Post
Don’t think it is that easy. At this point, the springs are still an unknown quantity, and they lack the legitimacy of some race shop or a major manufacturer. Better the devil you know…
The process that has been followed to get these to manufacture has been the same as many tuner/supplier.
Eibach provide OE springs to manufacturer's all over the world, which will be a combined development process between Eibach and the Manufacturer.

Eibach also develop their own aftermarket springs.

These springs have been developed by closely working with Eibach drawing on recent experiences/requirements and past experiences.
This has taken into consideration free length, ride rates, full compression spring binding and bump stop lengths. They haven't just banged out some springs based on the guy on the street's requirements.

Eibach manufactured the P1 Spring, WR97/98 Spring, WR99 Spring and all Prodrive Springs for Newage & Hatch Impreza. They have also manufactured their own Sportline and Sprintline springs for the Classic Impreza.
So historic information has been studied and helped with this development process,

The P11 Spring if for all intents and purpose the same spring that would of been fitted to a P1 in 1999/2000.

The WR15 R/T is very close to the original WR99 design, which along with the WR97/98 design always rode lower then the P1 (The original P1 front spring is a stretched WR99 spring).

The P11-6 fills the gap for those with softer dampers but want the WR97/98 ride heights.

Last edited by Scott.T; 21 December 2014 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 21 December 2014, 11:28 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by Scott.T View Post
The process that has been followed to get these to manufacture has been the same as many tuner/supplier.
Eibach provide OE springs to manufacturer's all over the world, which will be a combined development process between Eibach and the Manufacturer.

Eibach also develop their own aftermarket springs.

These springs have been developed by closely working with Eibach drawing on recent experiences/requirements and past experiences.
This has taken into consideration free length, ride rates, full compression spring binding and bump stop lengths. They haven't just banged out some springs based on the guy on the street's requirements.

Eibach manufactured the P1 Spring, WR97/98 Spring, WR99 Spring and all Prodrive Springs for Newage & Hatch Impreza. They have also manufactured their own Sportline and Sprintline springs for the Classic Impreza.
So historic information has been studied and helped with this development process,

The P11 Spring if for all intents and purpose the same spring that would of been fitted to a P1 in 1999/2000.

The WR15 R/T is very close to the original WR99 design, which along with the WR97/98 design always rode lower then the P1 (The original P1 front spring is a stretched WR99 spring).

The P11-6 fills the gap for those with softer dampers but want the WR97/98 ride heights.
I get the sense you are taking umbrage at what is a statement of fact- until the actual springs are available, people have taken their friends for rides with them, other unassociated people have driven on them, etc., they are an unknown quantity. There are no reviews of them, there is no comparison to other springs. They havenít even been produced yet.

Puts perspective on why people arenít beating a path to the door.

I can also assure you that if these springs had the Prodrive moniker on them, and Prodrive announced they were releasing the exact same springs, people would be showering them with money judging by how quickly the used ones sell.

But instead here we are, with what appears to be from the outside some blokes on the webs trying to make custom springs, and some wondering why people arenít jumping at the opportunityÖ

And I almost hate to say it, but there is probably a goodish portion of GC8 owners who havenít the foggiest as to who Prodrive is, let alone the significance of a WR99 spring.

Be reminded Iím down for a set of the WR15 R/Ts myself.
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Old 21 December 2014, 11:59 AM
  #229  
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I agree people may not know the significance of the WR99 spring, but anybody on this forum who does not know the significance of Prodrive and the P1 should perhaps revert back to driving a VW or French pocket rocket

There has been many a dig at how long this has taken to come to fruition and believe me it hasn't been without issue. It's now time for people to put money where their mouth is.....

Personally I'm in no rush to crawl under the car once again. It's currently running on STi Lowered Pinks and I have a pair of WR99 Rears all freshly coated in STi Pink ready to fit. But after so many spring swaps in the past 12 months I'm having a bit of a break.
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Old 21 December 2014, 12:05 PM
  #230  
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Just a reminder of some of the work done to get us this far : https://www.scoobynet.com/suspension...iscussion.html
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Old 21 December 2014, 11:46 PM
  #231  
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Been awhile since I've been on here. Just wanted to congratulate you guys on getting this project off the ground. Its not an easy thing to do and I have to say I'm really proud of the effort you all put into this. Well done everyone!
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Old 23 December 2014, 11:01 AM
  #232  
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2pot WR15 R/T
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bonestter P11
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Old 24 December 2014, 01:05 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by Arnie_1 View Post
Been awhile since I've been on here. Just wanted to congratulate you guys on getting this project off the ground. Its not an easy thing to do and I have to say I'm really proud of the effort you all put into this. Well done everyone!
Thanks for your thoughts and kind words, it's appreciated.
Hopefully, it all proves more than an engineering exercise.
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Old 26 December 2014, 12:56 PM
  #234  
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Could U set to a set of WR15 R/T, insted of the P11
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Old 26 December 2014, 08:29 PM
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twistybits - P11-6
topshot - P11-6
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piehole1983 - P11-6 (NI)


2pot WR15 R/T
Scott.T WR15 R/T
qsl WR15 R/T (US)
Geddesk2_2 WR15 R/T (US)
HighRevimpreza WR15 R/T (US)
Eacy WR15 R/T (Denmark)

bonestter P11
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Mtb_ed P11
P1 Steve73 P11
Rob669 P11
rusty&dusty P11
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Old 31 December 2014, 10:49 AM
  #236  
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I'll be fitting mine to Excel Gs so I am happy to have either P11 or P11-6 depending on the number of sets needed to allow the production to go ahead. At the moment the prospects of getting enough people to allow production to go ahead looks better for P11 so I'll have those please. Great work!
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Old 31 December 2014, 11:55 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Rob669 View Post
I'll be fitting mine to Excel Gs so I am happy to have either P11 or P11-6 depending on the number of sets needed to allow the production to go ahead. At the moment the prospects of getting enough people to allow production to go ahead looks better for P11 so I'll have those please. Great work!
Thanks for the support.

I think, if I took a flyer on getting them made: P11 or P11-6, without the minimum numbers, I'd probably go P11-6. As I've got a bigger market for those, going forward.

I'm surprised the P1 owners haven't been more interested.

Let's see what happens.
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Old 31 December 2014, 01:47 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Rob669 View Post
I'll be fitting mine to Excel Gs so I am happy to have either P11 or P11-6 depending on the number of sets needed to allow the production to go ahead. At the moment the prospects of getting enough people to allow production to go ahead looks better for P11 so I'll have those please. Great work!
The P11's don't match the excel-g's. The front spring is too short in its free length, and the spring rate is too high.
P11-6's for you.
HTH
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Old 31 December 2014, 07:03 PM
  #239  
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2pot WR15 R/T
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Old 01 January 2015, 10:07 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Scoobyedge View Post
twistybits - P11-6
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Scooby Wagon - P11-6
piehole1983 - P11-6 (NI)
Rob669 P11-6


2pot WR15 R/T
Scott.T WR15 R/T
qsl WR15 R/T (US)
Geddesk2_2 WR15 R/T (US)
HighRevimpreza WR15 R/T (US)
Eacy WR15 R/T (Denmark)
Scoobyedge WR15 R/T

bonestter P11
Vee P11
Mtb_ed P11
P1 Steve73 P11
rusty&dusty P11
KRob P11
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