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Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.

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Old 07 December 2013, 04:28 PM   #1
ditchmyster
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Default Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.

Posting this on behalf of bonesetter, so please address any questions to him.

Eibach the manufacturer of the well regarded 'P1' spring has agreed to produce a run of these springs - yippee

Well, almost... here's where things are at:

Alyn of AS Performance has been beavering away for quite some time on trying to make this work, and has had numerous discussions with Eibach for the best way forward of making more of these great springs I have said I will post up a group buy (with the Ditchmyster's help as I'm too tight to buy a sub) and manage what I can answering any questions folk may come up with, as Alyn is busy enough already

The news gets better in that the springs can be tweaked for dampers currently available. Remember, the original springs were developed for use with the Bilstein/Prodrive specific damper, which were shelved just before production due to the (slightly inferior & cheaper) Kayaba 'red' V5/6 damper being used, so are a compromise on the P1

The original spec 'Prodrive' spring cannot be made as this is still copyright protected. So, either an almost exact copy of the P1 spring can be made, or a tweaked version. This will need to be a 'mass' decision of course. Both types cannot be made with low production levels of this kind.

Interested parties will need to put down a decent deposit (TBA) and understand that once production goes ahead, this would be non-refundable

Estimated costs at this stage is around the 180 - 200 per set

The 'P1 spring' was developed by Prodrive for fitment to the UK tweaked V5 STi aka the P1 Impreza, replacing the too stiff OE JDM springs.

The spring is ideally suited for UK road use (best when combined with the 'red' coloured inverted monotube damper or the Bilstein/Prodrive damper). They produce a 'float' like quality over the rough (crappy) UK A/B roads

They give a substantially improved ride quality over the likes of Tein S-Techs & Eibach Pro etc which tend to over lower he car, and are also too soft, giving a bouncy, crashy experience

Lower the car by 1"

(A 'set' of springs consists of 4

An exact minimum number needed for the production run to go ahead has not been confirmed, but obviously the more... the cheaper

So please post up interest, and /or any questions

Cheers,
bonesetter.

.................................................. ..........................................

Small edited update on this topic,

I have moved all technical discussion into the suspension section in order to keep this GB thread clean and tidy, any tech questions etc can be found here...

https://www.scoobynet.com/suspension...l#post11286445


Regards
Simon

Last edited by Silver Scooby Sport; 01 January 2014 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 07 December 2013, 04:40 PM   #2
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Excellent i have the Bilsteins now just need these
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Old 07 December 2013, 04:43 PM   #3
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Possibly interested
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Old 07 December 2013, 06:11 PM   #4
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Put me down for a set!
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Old 07 December 2013, 06:50 PM   #5
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When are they going in to production soon?
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Old 07 December 2013, 08:34 PM   #6
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Do Sti shocks and springs fit a WRX? I have my eye on a set on ebay and like the thought of a 1" drop and OEM ish handling still.. curently on WRX 04 plate standard springs.
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Old 07 December 2013, 09:50 PM   #7
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Il defo have these for my p1 project. But after xmas!!! Would these suit the standard kyb oem dampers that are available from camskill? Cant find any bilsteins so thinking of sticking with oem
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Old 07 December 2013, 10:09 PM   #8
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Keen for a set of these to go in place of the eibach's I have fitted on my KYB AGX adjustables, thanks for the advice on these before Bonesetter, got a set and they really are great :-)
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Old 07 December 2013, 11:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veerinder9 View Post
Il defo have these for my p1 project. But after xmas!!! Would these suit the standard kyb oem dampers that are available from camskill? Cant find any bilsteins so thinking of sticking with oem
If they maintain identical or similar spring rates then these springs would not be compatible with an OEM Impreza Turbo damper(non-inverted twin-tube damper). They would be underdamped. If you have a P1 and are looking at the KYB Excel-G dampers, these are not the same as the inverted strut that came on the P1. They are much softer.

These are not compatible with new age Impreza (GD/GG). Though, arguably you could install a front set on a GD/GG. but please keep in mind these were developed for the Classic GC chassis. So if you are looking for something for new age I'd suggest contacting RaceComp Engineering in the US, they have, IMHO, the best springs available for that chassis.

Anyway, back to the case at hand. What do we have for dampers available for the GC that would work with these springs?
1. OEM STi KYB inverted monotube damper. Still somewhat available but pricey.
2. Koni Sport (yellow) inserts.
3. KYB AGX
4. Bilstein inverted monotube (sporadically available new when people unearth them from some long lost crate in the back of the shop)
5. ? Anything else?

I really hope this gets made simply because this spring does not deserve to die. It would be nice to have at least these few extra sets, brand new, out there to refresh the ailing originals in circulation. If you are driving a classic and don't want the trouble of coilovers, then these springs were the best available.

Now get to it!

edit: Additional info on Eibach Prokit springs. These are designed around an OEM Impreza Turbo/GT damper. These are the black, non-inverted, twin-tube damper. Spring rates are tuned accordingly, i.e. much softer spring than the P1 which used the much stiffer Red KYB inverted strut or silver inverted Bilstein strut. If you are curious about various spring rates take a look at this chart from North Ursalia from NASIOC. Rates are in lb/in. Eibach, as a rule of thumb, usually increase the spring rate no more than 20% on their kits using OEM dampers. And that is based off a fresh, new damper. That's about the upper range that the OEM damper can handle before its underdamped. So keep that in mind when installing lowering springs on tired old dampers.

Last edited by Arnie_1; 08 December 2013 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 08 December 2013, 10:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Clayton View Post
Do Sti shocks and springs fit a WRX? I have my eye on a set on ebay and like the thought of a 1" drop and OEM ish handling still.. curently on WRX 04 plate standard springs.
Jon, you might want to do a search or open up your own thread on this question, so as not to clutter up this Group Buy thread. But quick answer to your question, only STi 01-04 will work on a new age WRX. 05-07 used a damper with a different lower clevis for the new 114 hubs and was no longer compatible. Note, if you go with Bug Eye STi springs and dampers you have to use the complete assembly, at least in the rear, as your 04 uses a different rear top hat. Safest solution for you is to use springs and dampers off of an 04 STi.
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Old 08 December 2013, 12:14 PM   #11
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Great idea!
I've approached various spring manufacturers about this, and got nowhere.
Some thoughts:
They're not going to lower a gc8 1", if your already wrx/sti. Just a mention for gf8 wagons you may want to allow for say 30kg extra rear.
Your market would definitely be larger, if there were some additional drop - assuming no compromise on handling?
Speak to Scott.T appears to have tried most variations!
If the original P1 springs are 215/195? - what about getting the rears above 200 and matching the fronts accordingly?
What about allowing for the extra weight of the 6 speed conversions?
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Old 08 December 2013, 01:40 PM   #12
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Thanks for the input 2 pot.

First, it's all we can realistically do to get Eibach to make one set of springs, to one certain spec. Tooling requirements & set up are the big expensive, so multiple spec springs are just out of the question.

Springs specific for 6 speed converted classics are a very select market indeed, so simply would not be economic

Lowering - the Impreza just does not like being lowered, anything more than 1" always has a detrimental effect on handling. The car doesn't look too bad with this amount of lowering, and there are no negative handling issues.

Although we have a little leeway here on spec, we're not trying to re-invent anything and to be successful need to stick fairly close to tried & tested. The P1 spring simply works, and works well
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Old 08 December 2013, 02:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonesetter View Post
Thanks for the input 2 pot.

First, it's all we can realistically do to get Eibach to make one set of springs, to one certain spec. Tooling requirements & set up are the big expensive, so multiple spec springs are just out of the question.

Springs specific for 6 speed converted classics are a very select market indeed, so simply would not be economic

Lowering - the Impreza just does not like being lowered, anything more than 1" always has a detrimental effect on handling. The car doesn't look too bad with this amount of lowering, and there are no negative handling issues.

Although we have a little leeway here on spec, we're not trying to re-invent anything and to be successful need to stick fairly close to tried & tested. The P1 spring simply works, and works well
I'd certainly prioritise handling. I wouldn't lower any more than the P1 spring, but if you did, you'd sell more.

You've got to change the spring spec to avoid copyright. How you going to do that without changing the ride height and/or the rating?

Change the spring rating to cover wagons as well, 30kg more rear weight.
Arnie1 has often mentioned going over 200 at the rear spring, for better handling.
Factoring in the extra rear weight of a wagon and/or a six speed conversion, wouldn't compromise handling on a P1 and gets you round the copyright - and increases your potential market.

Last edited by 2pot; 08 December 2013 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 08 December 2013, 04:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
I'd certainly prioritise handling. I wouldn't lower any more than the P1 spring, but if you did, you'd sell more.

You've got to change the spring spec to avoid copyright. How you going to do that without changing the ride height and/or the rating?

Change the spring rating to cover wagons as well, 30kg more rear weight.
Arnie1 has often mentioned going over 200 at the rear spring, for better handling.
Factoring in the extra rear weight of a wagon and/or a six speed conversion, wouldn't compromise handling on a P1 and gets you round the copyright - and increases your potential market.
I think this makes sense as a lot of ppl are going for 6 spd conversions and I will be aswel soon
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Old 15 December 2013, 04:16 PM   #15
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BTT as this seems to of gone quiet.....
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:17 PM   #16
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Default Golden Opportunity...quiet

Considering the opportunity, I agree

Looks like the springs will pretty much be the same as the original P1's as changing the design is just not on.

I've been talking it over with Arnie (been a fantastic help, we're lucky to have him on these boards) He's laid out the massive work of spring design and really, Prodrive have done all the hard work already. They tested over 200 different designs before going ahead

Here's a little comparison review I made on 'P1' dampers & springs. They really are a superb performance spring for UK roads

So, come on... names' down. I'm having a set so mine's down on the new list

https://www.scoobynet.com/suspension...arison-gc.html
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:17 PM   #17
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:21 PM   #19
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Il just have to find some billies or buy new kyb agx's
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:42 PM   #20
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What's the difference going to be between the original P1 spring and this version?
If the same ride height, what are the ratings of the front and rear springs - obviously can't be the same as the original, as it would infringe copyright.
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:48 PM   #21
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Looks like they will be almost the same.

Not calling them Prodrive springs is the biggest issue, so that gets the copyright problems sorted
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Old 15 December 2013, 05:59 PM   #22
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1. bonestter
2. Vee
3. mtb.ed
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Old 15 December 2013, 09:20 PM   #23
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Old 17 December 2013, 07:06 PM   #24
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1. bonestter
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4. V6wrx
5. P1 Steve73
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Old 18 December 2013, 01:57 PM   #25
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Old 19 December 2013, 03:34 PM   #26
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Any postage to the US? I may be able to get a few people over here interested!
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Old 19 December 2013, 04:03 PM   #27
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Will these fit kyb super special gymkhana struts cause the hks springs on just now are brutal.

Allan
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Old 19 December 2013, 05:29 PM   #28
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Put me up for a set for my 95 wrx.
Must be perfect for the kyb agx

7. Eacy (incl. posting for Denmark

Last edited by Eacy; 19 December 2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 19 December 2013, 09:51 PM   #29
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1. bonestter
2. Vee
3. mtb.ed
4. V6wrx
5. P1 Steve73
6. 2pot
7. Eacy (inc. postage to Denmark)
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Old 19 December 2013, 09:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
Any postage to the US? I may be able to get a few people over here interested!
Would be good and shouldn't be a problem I would of thought.
A 20Kg package is around 70 from UK to USA according to www.parcel2go.co.uk

A good way to boost the numbers.....
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