The thing that keeps be missed is context i.e. what he/they were up against. It’s all very well having an intellectual argument about what constitutes a terrorist or freedom fighter, but you have to remember that the then government of SA were one goosestep away from being full on *****.
Do we call the French Resistance terrorists, or the Jewish underground terrorist movement? Where their actions justifiable?
For that matter was ‘Bomber Harris’ a terrorist for levelling several German cities and killing hundreds of thousands of innocents? Or Trueman for dropping H-bombs on Japan?

At what point does the means justify the ends?

 

edit; Martin covered it above while I was typing

 

Maybe, but it seems unlikely given that in his autobiography, The Long Walk to Freedom he said "The Church was as concerned with this world as the next: I saw that virtually all of the achievements of Africans seemed to have come about through the missionary work of the Church."

 

Agreed. As I said earlier, if there is such a thing as objective morality (as I believe there is) then we can determine what is good and what is evil.

 

I think he's just being humble to be honest, missionaries were sent into to civilize , so the aftergarde could communicate enough to get them to sign away their lands

What the church has/had is funds

Do you know, the number of churches in Bulawayo has sky rocketed ;rarely do you find an out of pocket pastor.

 

It's worth considering that Mandela was baptised as a Methodist and not a Catholic. These two stripes of Christianity are very different.

 

Yes but the T shirt I had back in the 80s with Malcolm X holding a gun and the caption underneath reading 'by any means....' was wicked! Wouldn't have looked so cool if it had MLK on it

 

I hadn't considered that.

 

Probably a hoax, but it made me laugh

 

Yeah. He doesn't qualify as a pure Christian, but he qualifies as a human, and that itself is quite rare.

 

but I've heard better.


Someone was asked once who wrote Lord of the Rings. He said- "Harry Potter".

 

So he pleaded guilty to terrorist acts in front of the SA establishment, like he had a choice.

The so called "innocent" people were his oppressors and supporters of apartheid, so are they not the ENEMY?

War is War and by it's very nature involves killing men women and children, bombs don't just kill the guilty, they kill the "enemy" in all it's guises, that would also include the millions of tons of ordnance dropped by UK forces over the last century, so does that make the UK government a terrorist organisation or defenders of the faith.

There is a song by a Rasta called maccabee which I can't find at the minute, but it sums up the African situation pretty well, some lyrics I can remember below but it was a Very long time ago, but you'll get the gyst.


If a man came to your house and told you to live in the garden, what would you do?
Wouldn't you fight and fight and fight them them?
Those old old Europeans were very clever men.
They came with the Bible in the left hand and a gun in the right.
They wanted to teach us about civilisation.
To eat with a knife in the left hand and a fork in the right.

There's lots more but the upshot is what they actually did was rape, pillage, murder, kidnap and enslave as well as tricking them out of land and mineral wealth, some of which continues to this day.

Now you'll have to excuse me if I don't agree with some of the points of view being expressed here because at what point does a people get to say enough is enough and give an extremely small portion of the wrong that has been done to them back?

Nelson Mandela WAS a freedom fighter and he used SOME of the same methods his oppressors used because obviously it was all they understood, I think even the Bible says Fight Fire with Fire, Smite thy Enemy and lots of other murderous stuff to justify the evil that it's followers perpretrate.

But hey this is NSR lets not let history and facts get in the way of a good debate.

 

How about the Liverpool radio show quiz where the contestant was asked what was Hitler's first name to which she replied Heil

 

Thanks a lot, that's me Fookin tea gone again

 

Jade Goody called Picasso pistachio when she saw his work on one holiday abroad. It was not just a mistake, apparently she had no idea who he was.

 

Not to worry, he would never have heard her

 

You know what I mean. I don't think she wanted him to come down from heaven to have dinner with her or something like that.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist . Happy Christmas

 

Thousands of people are camping outside of Mandela house, Del and Rodney said "why don't you all F**k off"

 

Happy Christmas to you, too!

 

Nice

 

I hope they aren't damaging the capriii ghia

 

Here're a few of Family Fortunes' classics:-

Q: Name a bird with a long neck.
A: Naomi Campbell.

Q: Name a dangerous race.
A: The Arabs.

Q: What's another name for money?
A: Bitch!

Q: What's another name for an ache?
A: Fillet-o-fish.


I've got tears.

 

It's also true that Mandela approved many massacres and killings by the ANC who were responsible for most of the black deaths through necklacing.

 

Discovery channel - Now.

The making of Mandela.

 

I suggest you look at the history books, that has to be one of the dumbest statements I have seen on here. Look at the ANC and its black on black crime also. Google Mandela necklacing to see how these people operated

Jon got there before me

 

You clearly have some evidence for this?

Ghastly, but not quite as bad as institutionalized racism

 

The worst thing was just to rub it into the wounds of the murdered , he was given a Nobel peace prize.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/af...mandela.watch/
They tell us that the ANC was removed from the Terrorist watch list in the U.S , but I don't believe all I read

 

Yes, but they gave Tony Blair one as well fffs

 

A big crowd has gathered at Nelson Mandela house to pay their respects... Del Boy and Rodney Trotter have had to tell them to **** off.